Blue Sky Vs White sky

If you have multiple flashes targeting the same spot and close to the subject (i.e. just out of the frame), then it's very possible to keep up with the sun using flashes.

Jam71868 wrote in post #5852620
sfaust... and everyone else....
I love this photo and others like it.... can someone tell me, in simple terms, how this photo was achieved? Is it possible to overpower the sun using 580's or do you have to have something more powerful?

Let us imagine the ISO is 100, and in this situation the normal exposure (according to the Sunny 16 rule) is 1/100 f/16. So in order to make it easier on your flash output, you open the aperture to f/11 and use 1/200 shutter speed to compensate the larger aperture. (Let's also assume your camera has 1/200 max X-sync speed.). Now turn on the flash, put it into ETTL mode, then shoot. That is all there is to it!

Your 580 has a guide number of about 150 or so, at 50mm FL coverage (30mm AOV on APS-C camera), which means at f/11 it can reach out to about 13.5'. Beyone that distance it is less intense than the ambient sun light. That isn't a disadvange...if shooting 1/200 f/11 and the distance of subject is 19' away, flash is -1EV in intensity compared to the sun. So at that setting, the example photo that you like would actually appear to be less artificial, because we would expect the shadow side of the subject to the less intense (the sun is at her back, after all). So to achieve that less intense light while in ETTL, you dial in a -nEV setting on FEC.

Jam71868 wrote in post #5852620
sfaust... and everyone else....
I love this photo and others like it.... can someone tell me, in simple terms, how this photo was achieved? Is it possible to overpower the sun using 580's or do you have to have something more powerful?

It really depends on the time of day, during extremely bright backlit conditions the 580 is not going to cut it. Here are some examples where you could use it and others where it would have been impossible.


580EX II full power into a Westcott 45" Halo, near sunset...

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Very Nice!!!

Thank you to all who took the time to answer my questions and post results.

Jam71868 wrote in post #5852620
sfaust ...I love this photo and others like it.... can someone tell me, in simple terms, how this photo was achieved?

Since I shot it, I think so I started to add a post here on the details, then decided it would be too long. So I created a detailed 'How to' on my blog, and here is the link for those interested. There is a series of images that show the effect being built up, as well as a number of example images with details on the lighting at the end.

http://stephenfaust.wo​rdpress.com …robe-and-sunlight-how-to/

In many cases, a 580EX will have enough power. But not in direct sunlight. Although, since you said 580's, if you have more than one you can double them up to increase the power as needed. Two 580's strapped together and aimed at the same spot will give you an extra stop of power. Another two more (4 total), will increase it another stop as well. Not really practical, but in a pinch two 580's might make the difference of getting the effect or not.

The best bet will be to try this effect in the early morning or late afternoon hours when the sun is less intense. Even better is to use open shade, overcast skies, or that time when the sun is just below the horizon.

Wilt wrote in post #5853675
Let us imagine the ISO is 100, and in this situation the normal exposure (according to the Sunny 16 rule) is 1/100 f/16. So in order to make it easier on your flash output, you open the aperture to f/11 and use 1/200 shutter speed to compensate the larger aperture. (Let's also assume your camera has 1/200 max X-sync speed.). Now turn on the flash, put it into ETTL mode, then shoot. That is all there is to it!

Your 580 has a guide number of about 150 or so, at 50mm FL coverage (30mm AOV on APS-C camera), which means at f/11 it can reach out to about 13.5'. Beyone that distance it is less intense than the ambient sun light. That isn't a disadvange...if shooting 1/200 f/11 and the distance of subject is 19' away, flash is -1EV in intensity compared to the sun. So at that setting, the example photo that you like would actually appear to be less artificial, because we would expect the shadow side of the subject to the less intense (the sun is at her back, after all). So to achieve that less intense light while in ETTL, you dial in a -nEV setting on FEC.

Wilt....good calculations....'cept he used an umbrella....lose 3 stops of 580 power (do not pass Go, do not collect $200)....

Outside, with all the "softening" light floating around, he could probably get by with direct flash...just being careful (via FEC) to not over power the subject.

jrsforums wrote in post #5858353
Wilt....good calculations....'cept he used an umbrella....lose 3 stops of 580 power (do not pass Go, do not collect $200)....

Outside, with all the "softening" light floating around, he could probably get by with direct flash...just being careful (via FEC) to not over power the subject.

While the OP shot the flash into an umbrella, the later example by sfaust did not mention the umbrella, and I was responding to a post from a thread reader who wanted to know how to replicate that result.

Nevertheless, you are right in your statement about a white reflective umbrella losing -3EV compared to direct flash

Thanks for the blog, I have someone to test it on today if the weather allows, and this time No turned off strobe

Cordial wishes of best of luck! It's daunting the first time you balance available, flash, ISO, aperture and SS to get the desired result...It can be likened to balancing a basketball on a needle