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FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Lenses 
Thread started 11 Jul 2008 (Friday) 09:18
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300mm Lens

 
amfoto1
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Jul 11, 2008 19:01 |  #16

The 70-200/4 is a fine lens, sharp and well made, but not a lot of reach and no Image Stabilization.

OP, I'd look hard at the 70 or 75-300 Canon with Image Stabilization, if that fits your budget. It will be more useful for what you describe wanting to shoot. Forget about using any teleconverter with it, though.

Actually, you can use any f4 or faster lens on any current Canon camera with any 1.4 or 1.5X teleconverter, including Canon's own, and still have auto focus work (center AF point only).

A 2X Canon TC, and possibly some others, will turn off AF with any lens f4 or slower. But, AF is slowed down considerably anyway, if you can even get it to work... maybe in ideal conditions.

The reason is that a 1.4X loses one stop of light. So an f2.8 lens becomes an effective f4 lens, an f4 lens becomes an effective f5.6, while an f5.6 becomes an effective f8.

A 2X loses two stops of light. So an f2.8 becomes an effective f5.6 and an f4 become an
effective f8.

With just a few exceptions, Canon cameras need f5.6 to auto focus, and are limited to the center focus point only at that slow speed. You can fool the camera by taping off some of the contacts on the teleconverter, but that doesn't change that the lower light makes AF slow down, less accurate and more inclined to hunt.

The exceptions are 1-series cameras and the EOS3, all of which can AF with lenses as slow as f8, I believe also center AF point only.

Zooms are less likely to work satisfactorily with teleconverters. Prime lenses work better with them, because their optics are less complex.

I use 70-200/2.8 IS with Canon 1.4X II teleconverter and think it works well (but not as well as a 300mm prime lens all by itself).

I also have the Canon 2X II, but won't use it with that zoom. there's just too much loss of image quality for my tastes, with this combo. I do use the 2X with 300mm and 500mm primes, where it performs very well.

Oh, and forget using a teleconverter on a 200mm lens on a 1.6X crop body unless you also plan to use a tripod, or unless the 200mm lens has Image Stabilization.

OP, you started off asking about "Macro". Please understand that a lot of zooms get a "macro" label that's a pretty liberal use of the term. They hardly ever get to magnifications that are truly macro territory. So, it's more a marketing gimmick than a truly useful feature. Best thing to do it look at the lens' specifications. Check the closest focusing distance. Compare with other lenses you are considering. Lens that focuses closest among others of the same focal length, will give you the highest magnification.

Besides, you can add extension tubes to just about any lens to make it focus much more closely and give you higher magnification macro or near macro shots. The longer the lens' focal length, the more extension tubes you need. I recommend the Kenko Macro Tube Set DG. It's a good value at about $160. I think Adorama might have a Pro-Optic set that's similar.

The $30 to $60 no-name tube sets on eBay are not good. They don't have the electronic contacts for auto focus or aperture control, which makes them pretty hard to work with.

Don't confuse macro extension tubes with teleconverters. They are not the same thing (Canon confuses things a little by calling their teleconverters "Extenders"). Macro extension tubes have no optics inside them. They just move the lens farther away from the camera body and that makes any lens focus closer and render higher magnifications.


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hockeyplaya13
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Jul 11, 2008 19:31 |  #17

Not to thread jack, but do you need image stablization with a 200mm lens? The reason I ask is that they (canon/sigma) sell lenses with focal lengths of 200 and 300mm without image stabilization/vibratio​n control. I would assume that IS would be mandatory with those focal lengths, though, right?


Canon 40d: EF-S 18-55mm: EF 70-200L f/2.8 IS: EF 50mm f/1.8: 430ex

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Super-Nicko
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Jul 11, 2008 19:59 |  #18

not mandatory but very useful. Unless you shoot tripod or can work with 1/focal length (ie 1/320 sec on a xxxd or xx4 @200mm )then i would recommend IS. I frequenly shoot below 1/FL with both f5.6 and f4 lenses.

It basically gives you more room for error. Increases the chance of getting a clearer sharper shot thats not affected by movement of the camera/lens. Also helps with panning a moving target. It comes at a premium price in the 70-200 range - although I think its worth it. (the f4 version has an absolutely amazing IS system-latest version)


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1DmkIII / 5DMKII [50mm f1.4] [85mm f1.8] [100mm f2.8 MACRO] [17-40mm f/4L] [24-70mm f/2.8L USM] [24-105mm f/4L IS USM] [COLOR=black][COLOR=bl​ack][[COLOR=black]100-400mm f/4.5-f 5.6L IS USM] Canon 1.4xII - Speedlite 580EXII - EPSON P-5000 - Lowepro Bags - Manfrotto 682B Monopod & 055XproB Tripod - 488RC2

  
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hockeyplaya13
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Jul 11, 2008 21:06 |  #19

Alright, thanks. Yea, I don't plan to carry my tripod everywhere, and I think the IS would be a necessity in any lens above 100mm for me, since my hands aren't very steady.


Canon 40d: EF-S 18-55mm: EF 70-200L f/2.8 IS: EF 50mm f/1.8: 430ex

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kitacanon
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Jul 12, 2008 01:02 as a reply to  @ hockeyplaya13's post |  #20

For $100 you can get a 300/4.5 MF Nikkor and adapter...if you can MF :) :( and don't mind practicing a lot...


My Canon kit 450D/s90; Canon lenses 18-55 IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5....Nikon kit: D610; 28-105/3.5-4.5, 75-300/4.5-5.6 AF, 50/1.8D Nikkors, Tamron 80-210; MF Nikkors: 50/2K, 50/1.4 AI-S, 50/1.8 SeriesE, 60/2.8 Micro Nikkor (AF locked), 85mm/1.8K-AI, 105/2.5 AIS/P.C, 135/2.8K/Q.C, 180/2.8 ED, 200/4Q/AIS, 300/4.5H-AI, ++ Tamron 70-210/3.8-4, Vivitar/Kiron 28/2, ser.1 70-210/3.5, ser.1 28-90; Vivitar/Komine and Samyang 28/2.8; 35mm Nikon F/FM/FE2, Rebel 2K...HTC RE UWA camera

  
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runninmann
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Jul 12, 2008 08:58 |  #21

amfoto1 wrote in post #5894628 (external link)
....

OP, I'd look hard at the 70 or 75-300 Canon with Image Stabilization, if that fits your budget. It will be more useful for what you describe wanting to shoot. Forget about using any teleconverter with it, though.

....

Oh, and forget using a teleconverter on a 200mm lens on a 1.6X crop body unless you also plan to use a tripod, or unless the 200mm lens has Image Stabilization.

....

When I owned the 70-300 IS, I had good success with it combined with the Kenko 1.4X in good light.

200mm and a 1.4x t-con is 280mm. Many people I know use non-IS lenses of 300mm FL or more handheld with good results. I've used my Sigma 70-200 with 1.4X T-con, handheld, with good results.


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RPCrowe
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Jul 12, 2008 09:24 as a reply to  @ runninmann's post |  #22

I need IS with long lenses...

The ability to hand-hold a lens and achieve sharp imagery depends on many interconnecting variables:

1. Technique - the physical holding of the lens and the pressing (not jerking) of the shutter button

2. Physical condition of the photographer - both the long term physical condition (arthritis, weak muscles nervous movement) and the short term physical condition (tiredness, heavy breathing from running etc.) as well as recent caffeine, nicotine or alcohol intake

3. Size and weight of a lens - very heavy lenses and very light lenses are hardest to hold steady. The balance of the lens on the camera also contributes to the ability to hand-hold the package.

4. Environmental conditions - wind, level ground, etc.

5. Excitement of the photographer - I could have put this in the temporary physical condition but, it is as much mental as physical

The standard rule of thumb is that a minimum shutter speed should be the reciprocal of the focal length multiplied by the crop factor. As an example using a 200mm focal length on a 1.6x camera, the minimum shutter speed would be 1/200 second x 1.6 or a minimum of 1/320 second.

This is only a starting point and a photographer should learn his or her capabilities. There was once a time when I prided myself in being able to get sharp images when shooting at shutter speeds slower than 1/focal length (there was no crop factor to consider in those days). However as I have grown older (which beats the heck out of the alternative) I can no longer hold a camera/lens package as steady as I once was able to. I need to shoot using a shutter speed of perhaps 1 / 2x Focal length.

This makes it very difficult when shooting with long focal length lenses which have relatively slow apertures.

I therefore will not consider a long focal length lens without IS unless I will be satisfied using that lens on a tripod or monopod.

I replaced my 70-200mm f/4L (non-IS) lens with the IS model and I use this lens 3-4x more often than I was ever able to use the non-IS model.

I would strongly recommend that if you are going to buy a longer lens, that you consider one with IS capability. The general purpose IS equipped Canon tele zooms are.

55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS
75-300mm f/4.5-5.6 IS (discontinued)
70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS
70-200mm f/4L IS
70-300mm f4.5-5.6 DO IS
70-200mm f/2.8L IS

Of these, the two lowest price lenses presently in production would be the 55-250mm and the 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS models. Either of these two lenses should suit your purpose. I would opt for the 70-300mm but, the 55-250mm has some pretty good reviews considering its very minimal price,


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Harm
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Jul 14, 2008 08:23 |  #23

Thanks for your tips guys


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