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Thread started 13 Jul 2008 (Sunday) 10:07
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Artsy vs. Traditional Shooting

 
LW ­ Dail
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Jul 13, 2008 10:07 |  #1

Good morning all! Just something I've been mulling looking at all the styles you'll see represented on this board....

My shooting tends to be more traditional in style; horizons are straight, subject in focus, up is up, etc.

Then I'll see really cool, artsy shots that you have to look at for a while to figure out which is up and what the subject is.

When I'm out shooting, I'll try to take 'artsy' shots, but always come back to more 'traditional' methods.

Then I'll see a wedding shoot with one or two shots of the B&G, nothing of the wedding party, close ups of the bottoms of the groom's shoes, and the laces up the back of the bride's back.

So I guess my question is more of a series of questions: how you shoot, which do you prefer, how much of each do you incorporate, or do you lean to one or the other and why.


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DStanic
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Jul 13, 2008 11:49 |  #2

I try to make my shots intersting, but I'm not incredibly artsy by any means. Those "which is up and what the subject is" shots maybe will come with time, but it's not something I aim for. It's nice to get the details but I don't really want to confuse people too much.
I find that some wedding or portrait shots that are shot almost at a diagonal, with too much vignetting added, etc. get old after time, while a well taken (but not BORING) more 'traditional' shot seems more timeless.

My "style" is still developing- especially with people as the subject - so in time I will develope more on the artistic side and then be able to incorperate it better to what I am shooting.


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minimalfear
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Jul 13, 2008 11:56 |  #3

"Artsy" photography is akin to that great line referencing pornography - "hard to describe, but I know it when I see it" !


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hommedars
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Jul 13, 2008 13:38 as a reply to  @ minimalfear's post |  #4

I struggled with this for years as I transitioned from traditional to art and now believe that the key is that you need you to see the image before you create it.

While it is possible for exposure accidents and post-processing experiments to occassionally hit on a cool concept, making a scene into an artful expression does not work. Making an idea into a photograph is much more successful because you already know the image in your mind is good, then you just have to make it happen.




  
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nicksan
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Jul 13, 2008 16:32 as a reply to  @ hommedars's post |  #5

With the "artsy" shots, I think if you try too hard, it shows in the results. I don't purposely try to get artsy. If the shot I happen to "see" is of that type, then that's what I get.

When I am uninspired and force it, the results usually aren't too great.

Being artsy for the sake of it defeats the purpose of being artsy.

OK, now I confused myself...:lol::confused::lol:




  
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Plant ­ McCloud
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Jul 14, 2008 06:31 |  #6

LW Dail wrote in post #5902208 (external link)
My shooting tends to be more traditional in style; horizons are straight, subject in focus, up is up, etc.

LOL! Thumbs up and kudos for the tongue-in-cheek comment on this one!




  
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LW ­ Dail
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Jul 14, 2008 07:01 as a reply to  @ Plant McCloud's post |  #7

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's confused!

I enjoy the artsy shots and have accidentally taken some that I quite like, but it's not something I'm trying for.

As I said, I have tried to broaden my skills by trying to 'see' these shots, but it's not easy for me. I guess there's a more modern shooter out there saying "I wish I could be more traditional..."

I had a perfect example this weeknd: Two swans who moved into the neighborhood, one evening:

Like I said my 'traditional' style accidentally gave me an 'artsy' shot that breaks all of the rules, but I quite like!


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gjl711
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Jul 14, 2008 08:16 |  #8

I would love to be able to visualize an artsy shot, then purposefully go about creating it, but I am an engineer by schooling and temperament so I let Mother nature do the artsy stuff for me and I will capture as best I can. It’s not that I don’t want to be the artsy type, it just that the artsy gene in my DNA decided not to turn on.

I’ve had lot of encouragement, why back when I was in school and took a modern art class we were encouraged to express ourselves using non-traditional painting techniques. The teacher choose one of my paintings to display as an example of deep raw emotion, bold color, and she went on describing how if you looked deep into the painting you can sense the passion with which it was created. Now me as the artist saw me lobbing balloons filled with paint at a large canvas several feet away and knew that the teacher was full of sh*t.


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nicksan
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Jul 14, 2008 09:41 |  #9

She was...:lol:

Art is about self expression. Can you expect anybody else to express how you felt at that moment other than yourself?

Therefore anyone who judges art in the way she did is full of sh*t...:lol:

Artsy for the sake of being Artsy never works!

gjl711 wrote in post #5907646 (external link)
I would love to be able to visualize an artsy shot, then purposefully go about creating it, but I am an engineer by schooling and temperament so I let Mother nature do the artsy stuff for me and I will capture as best I can. It’s not that I don’t want to be the artsy type, it just that the artsy gene in my DNA decided not to turn on.

I’ve had lot of encouragement, why back when I was in school and took a modern art class we were encouraged to express ourselves using non-traditional painting techniques. The teacher choose one of my paintings to display as an example of deep raw emotion, bold color, and she went on describing how if you looked deep into the painting you can sense the passion with which it was created. Now me as the artist saw me lobbing balloons filled with paint at a large canvas several feet away and knew that the teacher was full of sh*t.




  
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hommedars
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Jul 14, 2008 09:56 |  #10

nicksan wrote in post #5908046 (external link)
Artsy for the sake of being Artsy never works!

OK, you've said that twice now and I still don't understand what you mean. Care to explain?




  
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rdenney
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Jul 14, 2008 15:29 |  #11

hommedars wrote in post #5908131 (external link)
OK, you've said that twice now and I still don't understand what you mean. Care to explain?

Story time:

A few decades back when I was in college, I entered a photo of a bicycle racer into a contest. I had reduced the image to Kodalith (meaning that I exposed successive internegatives using line film to reduce the image to pure white and pure black with no shades of gray). It worked for that image, taking away the specifically identifiable--and irrelevant--details to leave only the action and "gesture" (as my art teacher would have said). After hanging the resulting blue ribbon on my wall, I went on a bit of a Kodalith kick. The next year, I entered another bicycle racer image, and I had reduced that one to line film as well.

The image wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as the previous one. The judging was public, and I got to hear what the judges said (this takes some fortitude as I discovered). But what they said I never forgot: Whenever you apply a characteristic technique (such as reducing an image to line film), you must ask yourself how the application of that technique tells the story or supports your artistic goals. If you can't articulate how the technique supports the artistic vision, then you are depending on happy accidents for success.

Another comment has also rung true in the intervening decades: When you notice a technique on display in a print before being moved by the image as a whole, then the technique has become a distraction. So, instead of supporting the artistic goal, it actually hinders it. Even for experienced observers, the emotional response ought to come first, and the observation of specific choices of technique afterwards.

When I'm at my best, I'm able to connect the feeling I have as I look on the subject to the representation of it in the photograph. That happens all too rarely. Occasionally, though, I will employ some particular technique because it seems to fit that representation. In those cases, the technique commends itself to me, rather than me running down a list of gimmicks for one that will make an image work. I have plenty of experience with the latter mistake.

If you apply a particular technique for the sole purpose of demonstrating that technique, then the art serves the technique. That's what the poster meant by being artsy for the sake of being artsy. It should be the other way around, where technique serves the art. But for that to be true, you have to be really in tune with the subject and what it means to you. This is fully consistent with your first post, which suggested that we visualize our final print as we look at the subject, and then apply technique to get from the reality of the scene to that final print.

Most of the time, I find my subjects so compelling that I'm not tempted to alter reality too much using any of those particular techniques. Of course, all photography is an alteration of reality. Some methods of altering reality just seem natural to us and others don't. So, to the OP, if you think that tilting the camera seems unnatural to you, then it is. Listen to yourself. But also listen to your subjects, or the effect of those subjects on you. Then, an occasion might come where tilting the camera just makes all the sense in the world.

Rick "who gets it right just often enough to prevent chucking the whole activity" Denney


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Wilt
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Jul 14, 2008 15:39 |  #12

Relative to wedding photography, it is in the eye of the client! I shoot what pleases them and sells photos. That is determined at the time of consultation, in showing photos of both types and assessing their reaction to each type. "Do you like this style of shot? Would you purchase photos of this type for inclusion in your wedding album if I shoot them?..."


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polarbare
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Jul 14, 2008 15:47 |  #13

rdenney - that's a great way to put it. i usually just say "don't tilt for tilt's sake."


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nicksan
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Jul 14, 2008 15:50 |  #14

What rdenney said.

You can't force things. You either see it or you don't.

I will bring up music again since I am more comfortable in that setting. Often times we use the term "playing 'out' " perhaps to describe "dissonant" playing. This type of playing can be used to create tension and pull the listener one way or the other. (if done correctly!:D)

If you are on the up with theory, it's easy to run pre-organized lines to create the effect. That's playing "out" for the sake of playing "out".

It's not the same as hearing it in your head as a composition and then playing that on your instrument.

I try to apply the same to my shooting. Obviously it's not the easiest thing to do and I am trying the best I can to see the shot before taking it. Certainly easier said than done that's for sure. I fail at this MUCH more than I succeed...

Some people care to reach for that. Some people don't. Either way is fine...different approaches to things that's all.

hommedars wrote in post #5908131 (external link)
OK, you've said that twice now and I still don't understand what you mean. Care to explain?




  
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XTshooter
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Jul 14, 2008 16:08 |  #15

rdenney wrote in post #5910267 (external link)
Story time:

A few decades back when I was in college, I entered a photo of a bicycle racer into a contest. I had reduced the image to Kodalith (meaning that I exposed successive internegatives using line film to reduce the image to pure white and pure black with no shades of gray). It worked for that image, taking away the specifically identifiable--and irrelevant--details to leave only the action and "gesture" (as my art teacher would have said). After hanging the resulting blue ribbon on my wall, I went on a bit of a Kodalith kick. The next year, I entered another bicycle racer image, and I had reduced that one to line film as well.

The image wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as the previous one. The judging was public, and I got to hear what the judges said (this takes some fortitude as I discovered). But what they said I never forgot: Whenever you apply a characteristic technique (such as reducing an image to line film), you must ask yourself how the application of that technique tells the story or supports your artistic goals. If you can't articulate how the technique supports the artistic vision, then you are depending on happy accidents for success.

Another comment has also rung true in the intervening decades: When you notice a technique on display in a print before being moved by the image as a whole, then the technique has become a distraction. So, instead of supporting the artistic goal, it actually hinders it. Even for experienced observers, the emotional response ought to come first, and the observation of specific choices of technique afterwards.

When I'm at my best, I'm able to connect the feeling I have as I look on the subject to the representation of it in the photograph. That happens all too rarely. Occasionally, though, I will employ some particular technique because it seems to fit that representation. In those cases, the technique commends itself to me, rather than me running down a list of gimmicks for one that will make an image work. I have plenty of experience with the latter mistake.

If you apply a particular technique for the sole purpose of demonstrating that technique, then the art serves the technique. That's what the poster meant by being artsy for the sake of being artsy. It should be the other way around, where technique serves the art. But for that to be true, you have to be really in tune with the subject and what it means to you. This is fully consistent with your first post, which suggested that we visualize our final print as we look at the subject, and then apply technique to get from the reality of the scene to that final print.

Most of the time, I find my subjects so compelling that I'm not tempted to alter reality too much using any of those particular techniques. Of course, all photography is an alteration of reality. Some methods of altering reality just seem natural to us and others don't. So, to the OP, if you think that tilting the camera seems unnatural to you, then it is. Listen to yourself. But also listen to your subjects, or the effect of those subjects on you. Then, an occasion might come where tilting the camera just makes all the sense in the world.

Rick "who gets it right just often enough to prevent chucking the whole activity" Denney

Great post! I'm saving that for later reference!


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