I hate the harshness of direct flash but have to use it...

OK. What do you do when you want a good image but the only way you can shoot is with a direct flash?

Like when I was shooting a friend's band at the brass monkey in Baltimore. Is any one that reads this has ever been there by some off chance, they know it's a bad location. Interior lighting sucks. The ceiling, walls, and floors are black.

I shot with a 580EX II clamped to what passes for stage lights infront of the stage and used a stofen diffuser to attempt to diffuse the light a bit and still got a ton of harsh shadows that weren't very flattering to the photo.

I'm going to be shooting a bartending competition at TGI Friday's and I'm probably going to be in the same situation. I'm going to go check the place out again to see what it's like, but there's no room for umbrellas or softboxes. What do you do to get better photos when using just a flash without any modifiers?

Try a bracket? It at least tends to push the shadows down and directly behind the subject.

Sounds like he's already off camera with his flash... just without anything to soften it (so it wasn't really direct flash, just bare). Post some examples maybe? Placement is going to be key, of course. If you were hitting them straight on, probably not your best bet. Find some way to clamp it high and at an angle (if at all possible).

Joe McNally/Scott Kelby... Just a couple of gels attached to the front of that sb.

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Try and use the flash more like fill rather than the light source. Crank up the ISO, wide open lens, etc, and see if you can tone down the output the flash has to put out to keep your shutter speed up.

LumiQuest Softbox would help to soften the light. Doesn't sound like it's a venue with good ceilings to bounce off of...

TheHoff wrote in post #5921438
Try and use the flash more like fill rather than the light source. Crank up the ISO, wide open lens, etc, and see if you can tone down the output the flash has to put out to keep your shutter speed up.

I shoot a lot of theater and here's my take on it... if the theater/venue is any good at all they have lighting crews who know what they are doing. So I depend 100% on using their lighting and NO flash at all. I mean aren't you there to try and capture the whole expereince/look of the performance? So why would you want to add something that is not a part of it by using flash? Get a fast lens, or two. Get a camera that does well at high ISO (1600, 3200) and do your best to get what you can. And if their lighting is bad, then so be it, I still do not think using flash in these situations (live performance) is a good idea.

What about using a 2nd or 3rd flash to simulate ambient light?...which could be fill to your main light.

The last wedding I shot, we placed a flash (on a stand) on a mezzanine above the reception and put a Fong Dong on it. We then shot with on-camera flash and PWs to trigger the overhead flash. Depending on the venue, you could aim the flashes at walls or the ceiling etc.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #5921276
OK. What do you do when you want a good image but the only way you can shoot is with a direct flash?...I shot with a 580EX II clamped to what passes for stage lights infront of the stage and used a stofen diffuser to attempt to diffuse the light a bit and still got a ton of harsh shadows that weren't very flattering to the photo.

I'm going to be shooting a bartending competition at TGI Friday's and I'm probably going to be in the same situation. I'm going to go check the place out again to see what it's like, but there's no room for umbrellas or softboxes. What do you do to get better photos when using just a flash without any modifiers?

First mistake...thinking a Stoffen would do any good when the ceiling is black! That dang thing is NO LARGER than the native flash lens, so there is no way it will be softer light! LumiQuest Softbox would help to soften the light, as suggested in another post, or even a very small softbox like a Wescott Micro Apollo or Photoflex XTC...all of those products increase the apparent area of the light source, which is what soft light is all about...SIZE matters!

As Dermit does, I rely upon the stage lighting only, the high ISO low noise of Canons for extreme ISO, along with noise reduction postprocessing

Village_Idiot wrote in post #5921276
I'm going to be shooting a bartending competition at TGI Friday's

No stage lighting with that.

I was thinking about using one or two of my AB's mounted up high, but I'm thinking that there's going to be a ton of hard shadows from the bottles and all the other little things at the bar. What about one Bee with a bare bulb and no reflector to flood the area and a 2nd one with a bit more power as a main light.

is there a chance to use constant lights? once i asked club manager to use dancefloor lights for shooting and it worked.

They're not very bright. It's a chain restaurant like Out Back, Chili's, Apple Bee's, Ruby Tuesday, etc... The lighting inside is meant for dining and not photography, that's the tricky part.

I could shoot ISO 3200 @ f/2.8 with IS, but I'd rather use the rest of my tools and get quality shots instead of settled for shots. I'll have 2 AB B800's, a vagabond II, 2 Viv 285HV's, and a Canon 580EX II in my kit by then. I could even go all out and secure the B800's to the ceiling, maybe even purchase a 3rd, and just light up the whole bar.

Don't automatically give up on bouncing off the black ceiling or walls. I was surprised that I could bounce off a low black stippled ceiling. Of course, if the ceiling or walls are are 40 feet away, forget it. Don't use any modifier if you are bouncing-you need every ounce [new measurement for light ] of light you can get. Keep your iso high and your flash gelled to match the ambient to use the ambient to your advantage. A bracket like Dave suggests would also be good. Here's some where I mixed direct gelled flash with the spotlight. My flash shadow is obvious, but still I think when taken as a whole the images are acceptable. I think the horizontal one is bounced, and the rest direct. I'm sure the bounce wasn't working to my satisfaction so most are direct. Still, however, don't rule out the bounce without a few test shots.
http://brsphoto.zenfol​io.com/p508490206

Bearmann wrote in post #5924044
Don't automatically give up on bouncing off the black ceiling or walls. I was surprised that I could bounce off a low black stippled ceiling. Of course, if the ceiling or walls are are 40 feet away, forget it.

Which of the photos in the link are bounce...I see a good number with side shadow, which indicates direct, not indirect source

(edit) just noticed 'horizontal' mention...but that photo shows pretty clearly delineated shadows on the back wall

You could try wearing a white t-shirt and bounce the flash off of yourself.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #5921276
OK. What do you do when you want a good image but the only way you can shoot is with a direct flash?

Like when I was shooting a friend's band at the brass monkey in Baltimore. Is any one that reads this has ever been there by some off chance, they know it's a bad location. Interior lighting sucks. The ceiling, walls, and floors are black.

I shot with a 580EX II clamped to what passes for stage lights infront of the stage and used a stofen diffuser to attempt to diffuse the light a bit and still got a ton of harsh shadows that weren't very flattering to the photo.

I'm going to be shooting a bartending competition at TGI Friday's and I'm probably going to be in the same situation. I'm going to go check the place out again to see what it's like, but there's no room for umbrellas or softboxes. What do you do to get better photos when using just a flash without any modifiers?

In addition I would check out this thread on nightclub photos:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=415099

It's a LONG one but will show you examples of low light in building shots (nightclubs which would in some cases be similar to tgif) as well as examples of settings and advice (slow/draging shutters - ISO settings, difussers - one fellow particularly likes the gary fongs, etc.).