Mixed Martial Arts shoot

Hi,
A friend of mine who liked some of my pictures (I shoot nature stuff and family currently) put me onto a guy who promotes Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) in our country.

This is a brand new business for him

I have never shot anything like this or have experience with action in low light. I can figure out the camera settings but might have to really try to get the right angles and emotions from the fighters and timing.

Now, I posed a few questions to him such as:

1) During the event, is flash allowed? yes we need to mind full of the Fighters ...try not to distract etc...

2) Would I be shooting this event solo, or will there be someone else? No there should be two other camera guys

3) After the event finishes, how will the photos be handled? Do you require them immediately? Or do I get to sort through them?
You can can sort , but I would like our team to assist you in the process

4) What payment rate are you willing to offer for my photography services?
(He said he would put me on to someone else to discuss this... how much should I ask for given his requirements?)


5) How is the copyright of my images going to be handled? Can I use any of them in my own portfolio to represent my work? Yes you can use in your portfolio ,,, but we retain rights over the usage . But we are willing to negoeiate a deal with you, if you find any additional sources of income for the photos

6) How are the photos going to be used? Flyers? Newspapers? Magazines? Possibly all of the above


I do not particularly like his terms of usage. Can I negotiate otherwise or is he right in his statement?
Also, given that I go along with his terms, what should I charge?

What are the copyright laws in your country? If the images are yours the second you shoot then they are yours,,, period. You need to negotiate usage with him from a position of strength. If possible control and bill for each type of usage. I think he is coming from a position of a work for hire. I do not like WFH agreements unless you are making serious fundage.

I am glad that you acted as a professional, asked the questions up front and wanted to know what views the client had. Well done. I know you want to do the shoot, but if it hurts more than submission hold......

Hi,
Thanks for the response Les.
The copyright laws in my country are the same as in yours. Once i press the shutter button, the picture is mine.
However, I think that because my friend told the promoter that I do not have any experience with this sort of thing (my friend was trying to make sure his expectations were not too high), I think he is trying to take advantage of me.

I noticed that he said that my images would possibly used for a lot of material such as magazines and so on, yet he is basically requesting all rights to the photos, meaning I would not benefit from any of those sales.

How do you guys think that I should approach this?
Is this something I should stay away from or do you think it can be negotiated?

Quick FYI.. a lot of the successful MMA shooters have the 35mm f/2.0 lens. The filter diameter is 52mm. Key to note - it fits JUST inside the fencing. The 50mm f/1.8 does the same, but wider is easier.

Typically, NO FLASH. You don't want to blind a fighter, even if it's only for a split second.

For his usage terms, you have to consider this. Do you want to be able to sell prints to the fighters and fans? If you're giving them the commercial rights that they're asking for, make sure you're getting paid enough for it. You're looking at several hundred dollars for a few fights if they want that much control.

You may want to consider agreeing to only allow them commercial rights (and not any of their competitors or anyone else), provided you get a usage fee every time they run it in print/news/web/etc.

It all depends on what they're willing to offer, how big the event is, what kind of money they're making, and so on.

Ask their finance person what their typical rates are, and what they expect in return in terms of rights. Once you know that, ask for time to think about it.. and get back to the forums.

Make sure to charge big time.

What I realized is that most clients just DON'T know the difference between OWNING the copyright of photos, and having the right for unlimited use.

Make sure your contact understands the difference, tell him buying the copyright will be a lot more expensive than just buying unlimited usage rights. Tell the contact that with unlimited usage rights they can do whatever they want, but you can resell them too (make sure to get model releases from the fighters if you want to go commercial).

I'd bet he would be perfectly happy with unlimited use....most are.

The financial guy finally got back to me and I had to politely decline this event.

They were firm in requesting all rights to all the photos and only wished to pay me a very small sum for the entire event, and this amount includes my time for retouching, transport and so on. They were very unwilling to go higher even after they agreed that my work was better than what the other photographers were giving them (they were using Powershot S3 cameras). I was a bit insulted that they think that anyone would shoot for that price and I am sure they are paying the door man a good bit more.

It is sad to see that they do in fact have two other camera guys that I got to meet and they do it for the experience, but in the long run are definitely hurting the business for everyone as they are doing it for free, not to mention that when they decide not to do it for experience alone anymore, they will not be on firm ground to negotiate otherwise.

I was a bit disappointed, but I feel that I would have been doing myself an injustice and robbing myself if I covered this event

Trailblazer, I am proud to call you friend. If you ever in the Bay Area ring me up the first brewskie is on me. You stuck by your guns and perhaps you will still get an oppertunity should the dim bulb over there head ever actually come on.

I know that you wanted to shoot this, I would too. But you stuck by an excellent set of principles and that makes you the hero of the day!!

Cheers,

Props to you Trailblazer. +1 to what LBaldwin said.

It sucks big time to know you had access to something amazing, but had to turn it down because of some idiotic and unreasonable requests from the people in charge that violated your principles. Just remember that it's not the only opportunity you'll have, and in the long run it's for the best.

If you're still really interested in getting some MMA experience, consider going as a spectator to this or another lower end event. I haven't been to a single amateur event where the fighters weren't promoting themselves for other fight organizations or where the fight teams didn't have other events scheduled with other leagues. You may find other leagues to be a lot more easy to work with (and a lot better paying).

Chris that's good advice...pays not so good but you will get lots of shooting time in and you keep the rights