Critic etiquette ?

Is it acceptable/advisable it give advice on a shot that is better than you could have done.

Or...

Should you keep your advice limited to a level below your skill ?

I ask because on one hand somtimes you know what you like to see regardless of your own capabilities and on the other hand....well talk is cheap and what gives one the right to "say" what they would do diffrent when in reality they couldn't pull off a shot half as good let alone improve on it.

neumanns wrote in post #5941521
Is it acceptable/advisable it give advice on a shot that is better than you could have done.

Or...

Should you keep your advice limited to a level below your skill ?

I ask because on one hand somtimes you know what you like to see regardless of your own capabilities and on the other hand....well talk is cheap and what gives one the right to "say" what they would do diffrent when in reality they couldn't pull off a shot half as good let alone improve on it.

I have been here a long time, and I consider myself skilled to highly skilled in terms of technique, composition, and knowledge of both the camera and processing. That being said, I have received advice and direction that is correct, insightful, and highly valued from those with "less skill" than me. A fresh set of eyes has sent me down directions that I never would have considered. This happened as recently as yesterday when Suzyb, a "member" with only 286 posts gave me fantastic direction on a shot that I thought was done. I thanked her for it in the tread and repeat the thanks here.

By all means, no matter who you are, or who you think you aren't, I post in CC because I want your viewpoint. Please give it.

Rad

The only thing I ask is that you run Spell Check before you post!

neumanns wrote in post #5941521
somtimes

neumanns wrote in post #5941521
diffrent

tee hee

Anyone who feels they need to give an opinion can give an opinion. It doesn't matter if the opinion is "right" or "wrong" - any critique deserves to be recognized.

Matt, I've not gone through and looked at Suzy's previous posts, but you're implying that a low post count equates to "skill". That is obviously a wrong assessment - in that thread you linked to, she seemed to be very confident in her responses and suggestions - implying to me that she's very skillful, but doesn't choose to post very often. Although, you may know her history better than I do, so I apologise if I have that wrong.

That being said, post count here does not relate to the user's abilities (only that they post a lot).

Spelling or grammatical ability is of course also not related to the user's photographic abilities...

Point taken, Just a poor example...Suzyb is very talented.

What is spell cheque?

Pete wrote in post #5941650
Matt, I've not gone through and looked at Suzy's previous posts, but you're implying that a low post count equates to "skill". That is obviously a wrong assessment - in that thread you linked to, she seemed to be very confident in her responses and suggestions - implying to me that she's very skillful, but doesn't choose to post very often.

Pete,

You are 100% correct - upon re-reading, the "low post count equates to "skill"." message does come through on my post. THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION, and why I put "less skill" in quotes. Suzi, I apologize for the inference. The main point I was trying to make is that of a "fresh set of eyes" and hers are good.

Rad

I think anyone ought to be able to post their opinions, regardless of their skill or knowledge level.

It's down to you, as the receiver of the critique, to decide whether or not you feel the critique is justified.

I think anyone is entitled to an opinion (as long as it is expressed respectfully) whatever their degree of skill. There are plenty of professional drama critics who can't act - and does a music critic have to be able to play every instrument to qualify him (or her) to comment on an orchestra's performance?

Irreverent wrote in post #5941691
I think anyone ought to be able to post their opinions, regardless of their skill or knowledge level.

It's down to you, as the receiver of the critique, to decide whether or not you feel the critique is justified or not.

Agreed.

Roy Mathers wrote in post #5941710
I think anyone is entitled to an opinion (as long as it is expressed respectfully) whatever their degree of skill. There are plenty of professional drama critics who can't act - and does a music critic have to be able to play every instrument to qualify him (or her) and orchestra's performance?

Well said.

Thank you TD (I've edited the post a little, as I missed out a couple of words:o)

I agree completely with you Roy, and I was considering making the same point myself.

I think some people just naturally have critical abilities that outweigh their own technical skills - and this is witnessed in the arts all the time.

Of course, a lot of "professional" critics tend to blow nothing but hot air, although there are certainly people out there with incredibly refined sensibilities who may personally struggle to live up to their own set of internal standards.

These people can often give invaluable insight, regardless of whether or not they can actually produce the kind of output that they are critiquing.

On top of this, the old maxim "I know what I like" holds true of most people, and I feel nobody should be precluded from expressing this subjective view, regardless of what they themselves are capable of achieving. I'm assuming that most people who put work up here for critique use their own set of filters on the feedback they receive to decide whether or not a particular comment is worthy of merit.

Well put Irreverent. I think a prime example of the sort of person you describe in your second sentence is Brian Sewell (he may not be known in the US). I don't know whether he can paint or not, but he is certainly one of the most respected art critics in the world - and he holds and expresses some very forthright views

Funnily enough, I was thinking specifically of Brian Sewell as I was writing my last post. He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the man knows how to express an opinion, and he certainly has a very impressive breadth and depth of knowledge when it comes to art and art history. To this end, it doesn't actually matter whether he has any artisitc abilities of his own, his strength is in conveying insight and critique from a highly informed standpoint. This still makes his opinions subjective, but there's no doubt that his "art awareness" lends his opinions a weight of authority that transcends the requirement for him to have any artisitc talent to speak of.

I agree with what's been said so far in this thread, but here's my approach as a less skilled, less post happy member

I think that photography, like all art, is about getting a message across. Because there is definitely an audience that each artist is trying to reach, I think that everyone's opinion is valid. When you post here, your audience is the entire forum and you are asking for their criticism. If only the people who "know" what's best get to have any say, how do you breathe new life into the art? Short answer is that you don't.

I may not be able to express what I like and don't like in the language of photography as well as an expert, and I definitely can't give advice on how to improve 100% of shots, but it's still fairly easy to articulate what I would change in a photo. The job of the artist is to filter out what helps make his or her message stronger.

I am not very far along in my photography skills and when I post an image for C&C,
it would be nice to know (somehow) that the advice being given is from someone that knows what they are talking about.

I have found that, being specific about what kind of C & C interests you, really helps with the filtering mechanism.
Questions on technique will gather different responses from different folks than questions on composition.

The OP on these posts should expect brief answers to the specific questions as it is unfair to expect a treatise on your image.
In my earlier posts I was guilty of asking "how do I make this better" , well how much time do ya have?

Irreverent wrote in post #5942144
Funnily enough, I was thinking specifically of Brian Sewell as I was writing my last post. He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the man knows how to express an opinion, and he certainly has a very impressive breadth and depth of knowledge when it comes to art and art history. To this end, it doesn't actually matter whether he has any artisitc abilities of his own, his strength is in conveying insight and critique from a highly informed standpoint. This still makes his opinions subjective, but there's no doubt that his "art awareness" lends his opinions a weight of authority that transcends the requirement for him to have any artisitc talent to speak of.

I think he's wonderful! It's said that he's the only person in the UK who sounds posher than the Queen!