Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Macro 
Thread started 19 Jul 2008 (Saturday) 09:57
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

aiming for 3:1 life size macro with my sigma 105mm ?

 
jjcool
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Joined Jul 2008
     
Jul 19, 2008 09:57 |  #1

hi im aiming to get around 3:1 life size macro with my sigma macro 105mm lens.

i heard a 50mm lens onto my 105mm lens backwards this gives 3:1 life size macro.

question is what type of canon 50mm lens could i use?

could i use my canon 18-55mm for this job would this give 3:1 life size macro ?

also i have just bought some 2 x teleconvertors very cheap how would these perform also with my sima 105mm

any help would be appretiated.

thanks




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,331 posts
Likes: 146
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Jul 19, 2008 11:54 |  #2

Forget the teleconverters.

Get a set of extension tubes. Adorama has them for under $100 US. Kenko DG set sells for about $150-160 US. Canon offers only individual tubes (25mm and 12mm) and they cost more than the third party sets.

Yes, you can reverse a 50mm prime lens on the front of your 105mm... If you can find a means of attaching it and if the diameter of the 50mm is about the same as the 105mm (or larger). Otherwise, it will probably vignette.

A 50mm used that way is sort of like a high quality diopter lens.

I's also forget about using the zoom reversed. It's too slow and I suspect the optical quality of the combination will be very poor.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
roger767
Member
190 posts
Joined May 2007
     
Jul 19, 2008 14:27 |  #3

whats the precise effect of an extension tube on a Macro lens?


www.rogerschooneveld.n​l (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jjcool
THREAD ­ STARTER
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Joined Jul 2008
     
Jul 19, 2008 14:38 |  #4

ok thanks,

so would you say the kenko tubes will give me more magnifaction than a reversed 50mm prime lense on my sigma 105mm ?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 571
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jul 19, 2008 14:41 |  #5

roger767 wrote in post #5942740 (external link)
whats the precise effect of an extension tube on a Macro lens?

It allows your lens to get closer, changing the focal length and so increasing the magnification of the subject onto your sensor. Plus, it does this without any optical loss from glass, compared to a teleconverter or a diopter.


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
macro ­ junkie
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,709 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Somerset - UK
     
Jul 19, 2008 19:05 as a reply to  @ tonylong's post |  #6

full set of kenko tubes wil give u 2:1 life size..u can either revers a macro lens on to your current macro lens and with the tubes your get 5:1 life size

or you can use the ranox.


Uk prayingmantis forum - http://www.dragonscres​t.co.uk/forums/index.p​hp (external link)
My flickr gallery -http://www.flickr.com/​photos/hooked_on_macro​/ (external link)
DA Gallery where i sell prints - http://macrojunkie.dev​iantart.com/ (external link)
MPE-65MM - MT-24EX Twin Macro Flash (diffused with 2 X Gary Fong Puffer diffuser)
EF-S 60mm f2.8 USM - 430ex (diffused with lumeriqest soft box)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jjcool
THREAD ­ STARTER
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Joined Jul 2008
     
Jul 20, 2008 10:32 |  #7

so you would suggest a set of kenko tubes a macro lens reveresed with my sigma 105mm.

what type of macro lens would u suggest mate with my 105mm




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John_B
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,358 posts
Gallery: 178 photos
Likes: 2731
Joined Sep 2006
Location: Hawaii
     
Jul 20, 2008 10:57 |  #8

jjcool,
A 50mm reversed on your macro lens will give you 3:1 macro. A full set of Kenko extension tubes will only give you approx 2:1 macro.

The reversing the 50mm on your macro lens should give excellent results, however it can be difficult to get light to your subject as you need to be so very close to it.

On my macro variation page I show photos of a ruler taken with FF and one is with a 100mm with reversed mounted 50mm f/1.4 to show magnifications <-- click to see (external link)

Here is a photo of the 100mm and reversed 50mm

IMAGE: http://johnbdigital.com/macro/lens_compare/macro_temp/50_reversed_100.jpg

Sony A6400, A6500, Apeman A80, & a bunch of Lenses.............  (external link)
click to see (external link)
JohnBdigital.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jjcool
THREAD ­ STARTER
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Joined Jul 2008
     
Jul 20, 2008 11:13 |  #9

thanks john_b, heard kenko tubes are good but if the reversed lens gives me 3:1 macro more than the kenko i think the reversed lens is the way to go if you have enought light.

thats somethink else i need to get as only have flash built in camera.

however there loads of choices when it comes to best budget flash to use.

has the reversed 50mm got to be just a 50mm prime lense only?

i take it my kit lens 18-55mm reversed wont be good to use ?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John_B
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,358 posts
Gallery: 178 photos
Likes: 2731
Joined Sep 2006
Location: Hawaii
     
Jul 20, 2008 11:55 |  #10

jjcool,
Well first a prime is usually better then a zoom. ;)

But the real reason is a 50mm prime (ex. 50mm f/1.8 or 50mm f/1.4) will let in much more light, as f/1.8 is much bigger aperture then f/4 (not sure of the exact max aperture of your kit lens at 50mm). So with much more light focusing is easier and faster shutter speed is possible.

As to a budget flash, I don't know what camera you have (you should put your equipment in your signature line, as it helps us help you), but if your camera has a PCsync you can go the route of cheaper flash and position it close to subject. Other light sources can be helpful if you set the correct white balance for them ;)


Sony A6400, A6500, Apeman A80, & a bunch of Lenses.............  (external link)
click to see (external link)
JohnBdigital.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jjcool
THREAD ­ STARTER
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Joined Jul 2008
     
Jul 20, 2008 12:30 |  #11

you are right there when i took some pictures with the reversed 18-55mm the picture was kind of dark and also the depth of field was pretty bad.

however i got a 2 x convertor on the cheap and tryed that too.

heres the samples of a drawing pin i took.

sample 1 - just the sigma 105mm.

IMAGE: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/picardo/IMG_4513.jpg


sample 2 - sigma 105mm & 2 x convertor ( 210mm macro)

IMAGE: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/picardo/IMG_4505-1.jpg

sample 3 - sigma 105mm & 18-55 reversed lens.

IMAGE: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/picardo/IMG_4514.jpg



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,331 posts
Likes: 146
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Jul 20, 2008 14:52 |  #12

Hi again,

I'm curious how the original poster has decided on 3:1 as what they need. Are you trying to photograph something that's a known size? 3:1 on a 1.6X crop sensor camera would be a subject about 7.5mm by 5mm. Or, 3:1 on a full frame sensor or 35mm film camera would be a subject about 12 x 8mm. Are you really shooting that small objects frequently? Any way a 2:1 image could simply be cropped a bit?

The higher your magnification and the longer your lens focal length, the shallower your DOF will be. It begins to get razor thin above 2:1. You'll either need to work with that or stop down your primary lens a lot to get back some of the DOF, slowing the shutter speed and/or upping the ISO to compensate, and possibly using a flash as well.

Any lens weaknesses will be greatly magnified right along with the subject matter. That's another reason zooms aren' t usually very useful for reversing (in addition to the smaller max aperture of the reversed lens and resulting dimmer viewfinder you'll need to deal with).

I looked up the Sigma 105mm and see that it uses a 58mm filter. That being the case, your safest bet for a lens to reverse on the front of it would be the Canon 50/1.4, which also uses a 58mm filter. Actually you might use any other 50 that uses a 58mm filter or larger, but I can't think of many that do. You may be able get by with a 50 that uses a 55mm filter, which is more common: older Konica and Minolta MF lenses come to mind as a couple brands that used that filter size a lot, including 50/1.7 and 50/1.4 Hexanons and Rokkors. Earlier Canon FD 50s had a 55mm thread too, but with them you need a special "reversing" device that doubles as a lens hood on the back of the lens, to maintain wide open aperture when FD lenses are not mounted normally on a camera. Perhaps some earlier Nikkors used 55mm or 58mm, but I'm more familiar with the AI/AI-S all of which use 52mm filters and leave you no better off than a Canon 50/18. Same is true of the later Canon FD "New" lenses, they used 52mm filters and still have the same issue of the aperture that partially closes when unmounted. Pentax and others tended to use 49mm filters size on most of their 50s that I know of.

But, it's always a bit of "luck of the draw" that any particular reversed lens will play well together with your primary lens.

The teleconverter example shown is better than I'd have expected.

I'd still be inclined to try extension tubes instead.

If the 68mm of extension from a set of Kenko tubes (which includes a 36mm, 20mm and 12mm, for approx. $160 a set) gets to 2:1, then to get to 3:1 I'm estimating you'd need a bit over 100mm of total extension.

In that case, you could instead get two sets of Adorama's Pro Optic tubes (which include 31mm, 21mm and 13mm, for approx. $85 per set) and use two of the 31mm and two of the 21mm, for a total of 104mm.

Some day I'm going to cobble together a macro bellows for use with EOS. I suspect I could make one work by using short extension tubes in EF mount on the front and back and soldering wires to the contacts to allow them and the lens and camera to communicate with one another. However, I'll leave that little project for a more ambitious day! (Or I'll just buy the Novoflex that offers this.)

The camera's built in flash is pretty much worthless for macro shooting (and... IMO... most other things). There are specialized macro flashes, mostly two types: ring lights and twin lights. Both can be mounted on the front of a lens (however a Canon flash probably won't bayonet onto a Sigma lens... more on how to get around that in some cases a moment.)

Personally, I'm not a big fan of ring lights for macro. I just feel they give too flat lighting for my uses. That's perfect if you are photographing stamps and coins or medical/dental and similar. However, I mostly use macro for small critters and plants and prefer more shadow play to give a sense of depth to the image.

So, one macro flash I use is Canon's Twinlite. It works well, however I have modified it to work on a Lepp/Stroboframe macro flash bracket instead of using the lens mounting system that Canon provides. The Lepp bracket has two arms that allow a lot more flexibility positioning the two small flash heads. It would also work just fine with any non-Canon lenses, where the Canon lens mount method doesn't work.

However, the Twinlite isn't cheap, and the Lepp bracket adds even more cost. Plus, it's a fairly sizeable rig to lug around and use.

An alternative is to work with a single flash instead. Any of the Canon ETTL flashes will work (220/420/430/550/580EX​... 220EX is small, but only highly automated in operation). Just use an off-camera shoe cord and position the flash where you want it by hand or on some sort of simple bracket. I use 550EX this way a lot, when I don't happen to have the Twinlite with me.

Now, you'd think a single flash would cause too deep shadows and a highly contrasty effect. But, with macro it doesn't. The reason is that the flash head is like a giant soft soft box in the sky to tiny subjects. So the light tends to wrap around and fill the shadows very nicely. And, if you happen to want more fill, it's dead simple to use a white card or something similar to bounce a bit more fill into the shadows.

The biggest concern working up close with one of these flashes is that they will over-power the subject. There's are simple work-arounds for this too. One is just to position the flash a little farther away from the subject. Another thing you can do is pick up a roll of white gauze bandage at a pharmacy and snip off a few pieces, than put a layer or two or three over the flash to diffuse and reduce the light output. Secure in place with a rubber band. This works very well and the ETTL system continues to work perfectly. Finally, there are also accessory mini soft boxes you can fit to most accessory flashes. These will also work well.

Just be a little cautious positioning the flash so that it's not directed back into the lens, unless you are going for some sort of special effect.

Recently I've seen some flashes that are "light panels", as well as others that use continuous LEDs. Both these might be useful with macro shooting, but ETTL is nice and something I'd not give up too quickly in the case of the light panel. Continuous light would be better, but might scare away some subjects.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

9,749 views & 0 likes for this thread, 6 members have posted to it.
aiming for 3:1 life size macro with my sigma 105mm ?
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Macro 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
2724 guests, 150 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.