Rant

Croasdail wrote in post #5943096
No, not at all. Just trying to help you understand it most likely wasn't personal at all toward you. It is just the nature of the job. Just as any industry, you have all kinds of personality types and people who go about doing their jobs in different ways. Some just like to be left alone so they can focus on the task at hand. Others are the warmest/nicest people out there. And honestly, the first 100 times being asked about your lens, it flattering.... I'll admit it. It's the next several thousand time that get a bit old. Agreed, should give the 1001th person the same courtesy the 10th person got, but it does just become noise and you sort of just tune it out. Not saying it is right or the polite thing, it is just what it is.

You have every right to rant... no problems. Just giving you some context.

Oh ok gotcha. I'm sure it wasn't personal towards me either. yeah, i'm still pretty new to the game...and need to learn how to play. Just...gotta rant some. Thanks again.

IMO, Hoff hit the nail on the head...

Just as many guys/gals in the pointy part of a commercial jet don't view me (with a Private certificate) as a "pilot," you'll find a lot of working photographers don't view some guy in the stands with a camera as a photographer.

They're being paid (and therefore expected) to produce their best work and you're not so in their mind(s) you get trumped.

As an Airline Pilot and a Photojournalist I must say there are far fewer ass@#$% in the cockpit than carrying around a camera. Not to say that we don't have em, just far far fewer.

Most of my journalism/ photojournalism experience comes from majoring in it in college (1989-93). I was always astounded at the attitudes and egos and all around bad behavior of the journalists and photojournalists I met durring college. Out of say the 200+ I had close contact with I would classify 90% as ass#$%#s. (Magazine and especially the trade paper/magazine guys were much better people.)

In fact I had so many sour experiences with hard news folks that after getting a 4 year degree in photojournalism I decided I did not wish to spend my life working in an environment with so many ass#$%#$ per capita.

So I became an airline pilot (it sure beats working) and have found my co-workers to be at least 90% genuinely good people. Yes we all have large egos (important in this line of work) but we are generally good at keeping them in check and not imposing them on others.

Your comments about blocking out your shots really brought out a lot of memories. I shot for the college paper and was no threat whatsoever to the pro's who might be covering the same local event, usually on campus, however this did not stop them from constantly blocking my shots, or walking up and standing directly in front of me! I have had 2 occasions where the pro shooting next to me stole rolls of exposed film sitting in my bag and one even opened my camera and pulled out the film (for you digital folks this effectivly ruins any shots, like formating a cf card). I have also had all the notes torn out of my notebook leaving only the blank pages, (can't necessairly blame a photographer for this but whoever you are, thanks Ass#$@&!).

From these expirences I figured that the competetiveness and habitual bad behaviours made the photographers act this way towards me out of habit rather than specific mallace towards a journalism student.

I specifically gave dates so as not to offend any of todays photojournalists, I have no recent expirences with todays folks. I hope things have improved with the advent of digital....

Peraps there are wonderful storrys of great compassion and kindness from photojournalists, this would be great, unfortunatly I do not have any storrys like that from my expirence...

Croasdail wrote in post #5942702
Seriously? Pro's don't go around thinking they are better because of their gear...............Up at Mid Ohio recently, we had pros competing with people with P/Ss who were given photo vests.

So which is it they care about the gear or not?


Just joking I know what you mean it is hard to have to compete with limited space with someone who is in your designated space because they are able to pull a favor, even worse when 30 folks manage it. It is not their fault but the fault of the people who are supposed to control the space but don't care about the PJs and just want for someone to owe them one.

I don't think this phenomenon is limited to Pro's. We have a LOT of photographers here in Vancouver, and I've walked by many a white lens wondering if it is someone on these boards. I always try to at least make eye contact and give a nod, but you may be surprised to know that at least 90% of the photog's I try to make eye contact with won't look at me.

I don't get it. Trust me it's not hygiene issues. I just haven't found a lot of friendly photographers out there.

Photography, and your locations, seems very territorial.

Edit: I just pee'd on False Creek so everyone else back off!

LeuceDeuce wrote in post #5944060
I don't think this phenomenon is limited to Pro's. We have a LOT of photographers here in Vancouver, and I've walked by many a white lens wondering if it is someone on these boards. I always try to at least make eye contact and give a nod, but you may be surprised to know that at least 90% of the photog's I try to make eye contact with won't look at me.

I don't get it. Trust me it's not hygiene issues. I just haven't found a lot of friendly photographers out there.

Photography, and your locations, seems very territorial.

Edit: I just pee'd on False Creek so everyone else back off!

People in Vancouver just assume you are a crazy and are going to ask for money. Of course with me it may be a hygiene issue.

Maybe the guy works for an agency and was assigned that gig.. Maybe he doesn't like shooting tennis.. Maybe he had a fight with his wife that morning.. There could be many reasons why he was in a bad mood..

When I worked for a newpaper and I was covering a major event there could be a dozen photographers/TV crews covering the event from different 'papers and TV channels.. Things can get hectic,,its competative.. We would never interfer with each other.. If you saw someone you knew you would just give a nod of hello.. During a break in proceedings we would often chat but never about photography.. Strangely enough pros hardly ever talk about equipment either when working or socialising..

I think this guy was concerntrating on his work and didn't want to be pestered by some "amateur" who wanted to talk photography.. In reality photographers especially press photographers are sociable guys,,love a chat and a drink but don't bring up equipment..

LeuceDeuce wrote in post #5944060
I don't think this phenomenon is limited to Pro's. We have a LOT of photographers here in Vancouver...I don't get it. Trust me it's not hygiene issues. I just haven't found a lot of friendly photographers out there.

Some strange guy with a 40D pinched my butt the other day. If that is your method of a friendly greeting, no wonder you're not getting a positive response! Was that you??

yogestee wrote in post #5944439
Maybe the guy works for an agency and was assigned that gig.. Maybe he doesn't like shooting tennis.. Maybe he had a fight with his wife that morning.. There could be many reasons why he was in a bad mood..

When I worked for a newpaper and I was covering a major event there could be a dozen photographers/TV crews covering the event from different 'papers and TV channels.. Things can get hectic,,its competative.. We would never interfer with each other.. If you saw someone you knew you would just give a nod of hello.. During a break in proceedings we would often chat but never about photography.. Strangely enough pros hardly ever talk about equipment either when working or socialising..

I think this guy was concerntrating on his work and didn't want to be pestered by some "amateur" who wanted to talk photography.. In reality photographers especially press photographers are sociable guys,,love a chat and a drink but don't bring up equipment..

Guess there's always something to learn, at least concerning people's different attitudes. Just a bummer. BE NICE PEOPLE. ya know? Enough with the eliticism.

Just a caveat - I met another photog there (wasn't shooting at the time), but was a shooter for the tournament. VERY nice guy, talked about gear for a while, different jobs, etc. I'm sure it's cuz he wasn't on the job, so to speak. But refreshing, given my earlier encounter with another "pro." (BTW - to me, "pro" just doesn't mean paid - pro also means representing the industry as a whole. Think about it - what if someone who didn't know anything about photography and asked this guy a question. He would probably think that ALL photographers are asses. Poor representation, IMO)

TheHoff wrote in post #5944671
Some strange guy with a 40D pinched my butt the other day. If that is your method of a friendly greeting, no wonder you're not getting a positive response! Was that you??

ROFL that would be an interesting greeting. *Pinch* "Hey are you on POTN (pronounced 'poutine')?"

Well I was on Davie......


(LOL... POuTiNe!!)

embdude wrote in post #5943626
As an Airline Pilot and a Photojournalist I must say there are far fewer ass@#$% in the cockpit than carrying around a camera. Not to say that we don't have em, just far far fewer.

Most of my journalism/ photojournalism experience comes from majoring in it in college (1989-93). I was always astounded at the attitudes and egos and all around bad behavior of the journalists and photojournalists I met durring college. Out of say the 200+ I had close contact with I would classify 90% as ass#$%#s. (Magazine and especially the trade paper/magazine guys were much better people.)

In fact I had so many sour experiences with hard news folks that after getting a 4 year degree in photojournalism I decided I did not wish to spend my life working in an environment with so many ass#$%#$ per capita.

So I became an airline pilot (it sure beats working) and have found my co-workers to be at least 90% genuinely good people. Yes we all have large egos (important in this line of work) but we are generally good at keeping them in check and not imposing them on others.

Your comments about blocking out your shots really brought out a lot of memories. I shot for the college paper and was no threat whatsoever to the pro's who might be covering the same local event, usually on campus, however this did not stop them from constantly blocking my shots, or walking up and standing directly in front of me! I have had 2 occasions where the pro shooting next to me stole rolls of exposed film sitting in my bag and one even opened my camera and pulled out the film (for you digital folks this effectivly ruins any shots, like formating a cf card). I have also had all the notes torn out of my notebook leaving only the blank pages, (can't necessairly blame a photographer for this but whoever you are, thanks Ass#$@&!).

From these expirences I figured that the competetiveness and habitual bad behaviours made the photographers act this way towards me out of habit rather than specific mallace towards a journalism student.

I specifically gave dates so as not to offend any of todays photojournalists, I have no recent expirences with todays folks. I hope things have improved with the advent of digital....

Peraps there are wonderful storrys of great compassion and kindness from photojournalists, this would be great, unfortunatly I do not have any storrys like that from my expirence...

holy ****. that story is amazing. What the hell? You can't just leave it at that! What happened to the guys that exposed your film and opened up the camera and pulled it out? That's a situation that could get VERY ugly. What happened?!

Alot of interesting stories and points in this thread. The thought of being a full-time photographer scares me. It would be very competitive and stressful at times knowing this is what pays the bills. I love it as a hobby and hope someday to possibly shoot a few weddings on the side but wouldn't want to do it for a living, that would burn me out.

It reminds me of hobbies and jobs that I've had in the past/present. I used to really be into PCs. In college I took 'systems technician' and got a job repairing PCs in a shop. It wasn't long before I got sick of tech talk and people asking me questions and wanting me to fix their crap. I have gotten out of the I.T. thing and now enjoy it as a hobby (but I'm not up to date on all the latest and greatest like before).
Now I'm a auto detailer (actually making more money then fixing PCs). I've been doing it for several years and still enjoy doing it. But when someone wants to know how to polish their car and make it look new again (which takes skill and lots of hard work) I just recommend some wax they can buy at the store to make it slightly shinier. I just don't care talk about that stuff when I do it all day.

As for the ***hole photographer mentioned in the first thread- there could be many reasons why he acted the way he did. Perhaps he's burnt out and doesn't LIKE his job anymore, perhaps he was totally focused on getting the shot (although he could have said "sorry, I'm busy"), maybe he's having a bad day or perhaps he's just an ***hole and it had nothing to do with you or photography at all.

I'm just surprised they let you through the gate with your gear! As a huge tennis fan and photographer, I get kicked out tournaments all the time when I whip out the big boy (70-200 2.8 IS), even far smaller venues than Indy.

irishman wrote in post #5945909
I'm just surprised they let you through the gate with your gear! As a huge tennis fan and photographer, I get kicked out tournaments all the time when I whip out the big boy (70-200 2.8 IS), even far smaller venues than Indy.

We finagled a few all-access passes. They weren't necessarily for media or press box, but security saw our passes around our neck and our cameras on our monopods, they assumed we were associated press, so they just let us through, no questions asked into the photo well.

We were lucky...I'm gonna try it at the finals today.