Rant

The problem with non pros being in the press area is that it makes him a bit more less free to to his job. One small example, you are working in a closed area for pros and there are only other working pro there you are not too worried about a piece of kit walking away (it could happen but not very likely), with a bunch of regular folks you have to be a bit more cautious about that.

I don't think he should have been rude (it just is not a great way to promote the profession) but I think he should have raised the issue with the people who control those passes. There are reasons that there are press areas, it is not general seating.

Quad wrote in post #5948570
The problem with non pros being in the press area is that it makes him a bit more less free to to his job. One small example, you are working in a closed area for pros and there are only other working pro there you are not too worried about a piece of kit walking away (it could happen but not very likely), with a bunch of regular folks you have to be a bit more cautious about that.

I don't think he should have been rude (it just is not a great way to promote the profession) but I think he should have raised the issue with the people who control those passes. There are reasons that there are press areas, it is not general seating.

I completely understand about that. If there was very limited seating available, I would not have tried to squeeze in. I guess I must not have done a very good job explaining the situation. The biggest thing that irked me about it was the fact that there was PLENTY of seating in the photo well (literally 30-40 seats along the courtside), and he sat right next to me and put his lens directly in my field of view. I totally understand the increased risk of a piece of someone's kit just walking away if they (media credentialing and security personnel) let non-working photogs in the area. I may not be "pro," but I value my gear as much as the next guy.

Thanks for the reply, Quad

Let me ask this. If you are a guest at a wedding would you approach the wedding photographer while he's at his busiest getting wedding party shots etc. to talk shop?

Maybe I'm just antisocial but I frequent a venue in Milwaukee - the Mitchell Domes - that is extremely popular with pros for engagement shoots, etc. and I've never initiated a conversation with one. I may glance at their gear but that's about it; in fact I stay out of their way or I would turn off my flash so they wouldn't catch it because I realize they are working while I'm not.

You admit, finally that you are not a pro but you start chatting away to one like he should be your best buddy?

Did you ever think that he might have picked that spot because he knows it will give him the best shot? He NEEDS to get that shot as his pay depends on it! He probably knew you werent press (i bet he knows all thhe press guys by sight and prob by name as well). He is probably thinking "oh b&^%$£ another guy with cam gonna screw my shot up by blocking me". He may also have been thinking " Im gonna have to speak to management about letting GWC in here".

You expect him to know that you respect his equipment? How is he supposed to know that? For all you know some lowlife might have stolen some lenses from him by blagging his way into the press box like you did!

If you are not a pro photographer working on a dealine and under pressure to get THE shot, do not try to sound like you understand the way they think.

You need to undergo a reality check - its not him thats wrong in this scenario, its you. You blag your way into a restricted area, chat to a guy who needs all his concentration to make sure he doesnt miss the shot and expect to be treated like a friend? Sorry its not gonna happen.

sacral wrote in post #5948601
The biggest thing that irked me about it was the fact that there was PLENTY of seating in the photo well (literally 30-40 seats along the courtside), and he sat right next to me and put his lens directly in my field of view

The angles of the views have to be different from each of the 30-40 seats, and I would suspect the pro picked the place that he knew he could get the best shots from for the kinds of shots he intended to make. You were probably very much in his way by being where you didn't really belong in the first place.

Egocentric behavior can be offensive to others and will never be noticed by the offender.

sacral wrote in post #5946898
Why would that matter - he didn't have to pay to be there. And I never got in his way.

Can I sneak into your office and try to strike up a conversation with you while you try to get your job done? Bottom line, you abused a pass that was given to you. It wasn't open seating, it was APs. If you had simply asked where you could shoot and make sure you were not in "his" way, you too might have hit it off. You were literally in his office - his place where he makes his living to pay the bills.

As you shoot around, you will find by respecting the rules and working with the pro's, many more doors will open to you. The act of "sneaking in" shows you knew you didn't belong.

He still could have been polite, but to complain that he fouled some of your pictures when you were in his spot - a place you didn't belong, shows you didn't really understand the implications of you being there were. More and more events are being closed off to non-assigned pro's and non-pros alike because of stuff like this. Be careful to respect the rules on your passes, and lots of other opportunities will open up to you.

Good luck with it in the future.

neilwood32 wrote in post #5949043
You admit, finally that you are not a pro but you start chatting away to one like he should be your best buddy?

Did you ever think that he might have picked that spot because he knows it will give him the best shot? He NEEDS to get that shot as his pay depends on it! He probably knew you werent press (i bet he knows all thhe press guys by sight and prob by name as well). He is probably thinking "oh b&^%$£ another guy with cam gonna screw my shot up by blocking me". He may also have been thinking " Im gonna have to speak to management about letting GWC in here".

You expect him to know that you respect his equipment? How is he supposed to know that? For all you know some lowlife might have stolen some lenses from him by blagging his way into the press box like you did!

If you are not a pro photographer working on a dealine and under pressure to get THE shot, do not try to sound like you understand the way they think.

You need to undergo a reality check - its not him thats wrong in this scenario, its you. You blag your way into a restricted area, chat to a guy who needs all his concentration to make sure he doesnt miss the shot and expect to be treated like a friend? Sorry its not gonna happen.

Neil,,,you hit the nail on the head here regarding deadlines and pressure.. I doubt any amateur understands these.. I'll give you an example.. Shoot a football match on a Sunday afternoon, return back to the office at around 6.30pm with a few hundred images to look through, select a few dozen (one of those to be the back page pic), do minor adjustments to images like cropping and tonality adjustments (we had a imaging department who did all the difficult Photoshopping work).. We had to have images filed by 8.30pm for 10.30pm printing for Monday morning's edition.. In the meantime you have been on the job since 1.30pm without as much as a meal break or hardly a cup of coffee (the press photographer's best friend)..

This pressure is on not only on Sunday afternoons but 3 or 4 afternoons a week.. Let me tell you,,this separates the men from the boys..

Croasdail wrote in post #5949993
Can I sneak into your office and try to strike up a conversation with you while you try to get your job done? Bottom line, you abused a pass that was given to you. It wasn't open seating, it was APs. If you had simply asked where you could shoot and make sure you were not in "his" way, you too might have hit it off. You were literally in his office - his place where he makes his living to pay the bills.

As you shoot around, you will find by respecting the rules and working with the pro's, many more doors will open to you. The act of "sneaking in" shows you knew you didn't belong.

He still could have been polite, but to complain that he fouled some of your pictures when you were in his spot - a place you didn't belong, shows you didn't really understand the implications of you being there were. More and more events are being closed off to non-assigned pro's and non-pros alike because of stuff like this. Be careful to respect the rules on your passes, and lots of other opportunities will open up to you.

Good luck with it in the future.

Thank you for the advice, which was very good.

For the record, i said hello to him when he came in to sit down while the ball was in play. However, I said the other things when the players were in between sets.

Good points have been brought up by those who think I don't belong or were not entitled to be there, and this is all a good learning experience for me. However, if you were to walk into my office or place of work while I was extremely busy, I would not treat you like s#!t. I would still treat you like a human being. I did not expect this person to treat me like a "friend." I (thought) I was just being polite, since we made eye contact. In my field of work, we value human contact and courtesy, and I just took that professional mentality with me to the tennis courts. My fault on that one, given the fast-paced nature of this game.

yogestee wrote in post #5950063
This pressure is on not only on Sunday afternoons but 3 or 4 afternoons a week.. Let me tell you,,this separates the men from the boys..

Not to mention you have to do it when you have a cold or feeling a bit under the weather as well. Especially doing freelance, no photos no pay.

It is not a matter of hating the job it is a matter of that is what the job entails. Sometimes it is not all roses but it is lots of fun too or at least interesting.

Still just doing it mostly for fun and not having to pay bills with it is best of all.

Quad wrote in post #5950195
Not to mention you have to do it when you have a cold or feeling a bit under the weather as well. Especially doing freelance, no photos no pay.

It is not a matter of hating the job it is a matter of that is what the job entails. Sometimes it is not all roses but it is lots of fun too or at least interesting.

Still just doing it mostly for fun and not having to pay bills with it is best of all.

Quad,,,luckily I was a staffer,,I received sick pay, holiday pay and long service..

Just out of curiosity you had mentions that "we" got passes. Were you with your friends in the press box? If so how were they acting and did they also have cameras? Were there conversations going on while the game was on that might distract him from concentrating on his job. I know that when I am working on certain things at my work or home I need 100% concentration and sometimes people come in and I have to tell them not now so that I can finish the thought process that I was working on. After I need to apologize as I might have been a little rude in telling them but I needed to complete the thought process. I am sure that shooting professionally is not much different as you have to guess and anticipate where that money shot is going to come from based upon what has happened and what you think is going to happen. Having some guys talking about anything over your shoulder within ear reach can be a distraction and put someone in a bad mood. I am not saying that you were wrong just looking at another part of the puzzle.

I don't think this need to go on any longer.


There are lots of different types of people participating in the world of photography.
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