Outdoor Portrait lighting - On a budget. (With Examples)

Jadam wrote in post #5947939
I remember reading about a trick where your aperture controls the background exposure and time value controls the strobe light exposure. Or vise-versa, or something along those grounds... anyone???

Other way around.

Ambient exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and shutterspeed.
Flash exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and flash power.

So in order to alter the ratio between the two, you'ld need to alter either flash power or shutterspeed.

René Damkot wrote in post #5948041
Other way around.

Ambient exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and shutterspeed.
Flash exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and flash power.

So in order to alter the ratio between the two, you'ld need to alter either flash power or shutterspeed.

Yeah its give and take (i.e. you know you want wide DOF and motion stopping shutter speed, but both of these let in less light so you crank the ISO or use flash to get the shot)

René Damkot wrote in post #5948041
Other way around.

Ambient exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and shutterspeed.
Flash exposure is controlled by aperture, ISO and flash power.

So in order to alter the ratio between the two, you'ld need to alter either flash power or shutterspeed.

This is great! Thanks for this tip....
M Powered, Rene, and Franko515

Could you CC and tell me what I did wrong here. One day I was taking pictures outside. I am using a Rebel XT. The first shot was ok and I was able to sell it.(PIC #1). The next week, all other shots went down hill. The customer loves it but I don't. The location and lights are the same. (SEE PIC #2, #3, #4, and 5.)

I always have a problem shooting outdoors. First, Should I have more than 1 light, if so, then you answered my first instinct and thought. I have a AB800 and the 430ex. Second, since it is night time, should I setup the AB800 to modeling lamp (continuous light) and use the 430EX as a fill-in?

All images below was with one light, pocketwizard, and triggered by the camera.
Maybe I had the lighting on the stand too far back and not on a 45 degree??

Shooting in Manual mode is so hard and shooting in the dark. I am an amateur and this stuff is really complicated. I bow and praise those who can get this stuff... How do you remember everything under pressure (settings, control, fec, iso, etc...).

Pic #1 - flash:off, iso 200, f/4.0/ and 1/10 sec.

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Great thread love your style answers a lot of questions that have been beckoning me as my next photog acquisiotions will be 580EX11 and umbrellas
...

@jackies35

Not bad shots at all for outside in the dark

If shooting in the dark you have a few options

You can take down your shutter speed (drag shutter) to let in more ambient, or crank your ISO (you would probably have to take your flash power down to compensate for the higher ISO) but if its really dark there may not be much ambient left. If this is the case and you cant use the sky as a backdrop (always a great free background depending on time of day) you can add a backlight (maybe cross light as MPowered has done, i.e. if one light is 45degrees camera left the back light would be 45degrees right - behind model) to bring some seperation from your subject and the background (dark hair and shdaow side of face wont be lost to the background, and it gives a sort of DOF to the shot).

I hope this helps you out

Hey M, I have a question for you.
In your first example, are the lights set equal, or which one is set to put more light on the model? I know you said that you don't meter, but I have heard that the back light needs to be about 1 stop brighter than the main. Is that the case here?

Great thread, thanks for sharing.

One question: I often try and light, but I end up lighting the ground as well ending up in an unpleasant "spotlight" effect. How can I solve this? I was shooting a 580exII through an umbrella.

Chris71 wrote in post #5949783
Hey M, I have a question for you.
In your first example, are the lights set equal, or which one is set to put more light on the model? I know you said that you don't meter, but I have heard that the back light needs to be about 1 stop brighter than the main. Is that the case here?

That refers to lighting on say white seamless and the background should be 1-2 stops brighter.

I find that the backlight (light that shine back to subject to create a rim) should be less powerful than the main.

Hope this helps

mrandrew wrote in post #5950206
Great thread, thanks for sharing.

One question: I often try and light, but I end up lighting the ground as well ending up in an unpleasant "spotlight" effect. How can I solve this? I was shooting a 580exII through an umbrella.

If its daytime try and balance your flash with the ambient, if its night out either crop the shot in camera or feather the light upward and the light will fall off toward the ground.

Hope this helps

Enjoyed this thread as it is explained in the simplest terms & so easy to comprehend.

jackies35 wrote in post #5948502
Could you CC and tell me what I did wrong here. One day I was taking pictures outside. I am using a Rebel XT. The first shot was ok and I was able to sell it.(PIC #1). The next week, all other shots went down hill. The customer loves it but I don't. The location and lights are the same. (SEE PIC #2, #3, #4, and 5.)
Pic #1 - flash:off, iso 200, f/4.0/ and 1/10 sec.

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Pic# 5 shutter 1/60 ; f/5.6; iso 400 average:metering; flash off @ 33mm

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Let's compare these two shots:
First is 1/10s f/4; at ISO 200. Second is 1/60s f5.6 at ISO 400. That is 2 1/2 stop less ambient in the second.
Flash is okay in the second, if a bit much on the left girl, but ambient is too low (IMO). That's why in #1 the street behind the guys has a warm lighting: The ambient.

jackies35 wrote in post #5948502
I always have a problem shooting outdoors. First, Should I have more than 1 light, if so, then you answered my first instinct and thought. I have a AB800 and the 430ex. Second, since it is night time, should I setup the AB800 to modeling lamp (continuous light) and use the 430EX as a fill-in?

All images below was with one light, pocketwizard, and triggered by the camera.
Maybe I had the lighting on the stand too far back and not on a 45 degree??

One light is enough, if you use it right.
I think I'd shoot through an umbrella in a case like this.
Flash on M, power set as needed (assuming subject to flash distance is constant). Camera on M, aperture set for DoF needed (say: f/5.6 or so), ISO 400 or so will probably work (from your examples), and be a lot easier on the flash batteries then ISO 100. shutterspeed low enough for a bit of ambient.

jackies35 wrote in post #5948502
Shooting in Manual mode is so hard and shooting in the dark. I am an amateur and this stuff is really complicated. I bow and praise those who can get this stuff... How do you remember everything under pressure (settings, control, fec, iso, etc...).

Nothing hard about shooting M in this case, since everything is predictable and constant.
Shutterspeed can be quite long (as seen in your first example), since there is (almost) no ambient lighting on the subjects to cause blur. All you have to worry about is the background "shining through" your subjects.

That's what's happening in the attached photo: 1/6s; f/2.8; ISO 1600. Subjects are frozen by the flash, there's not much light on them, so not too much blur (at least for two of them), but there are lights shining through their heads

jackies35 wrote in post #5948502
So, here what I am really asking is;
How many lights for outdoor night shots? where is the 45 degree angle closer to the subject or me (camera)? Should i increase the ISO and clean up the noise later? I shot a lot of colored people, so should I increase FEC? I know I need a class in lighting but it won't start until 7/30.

One flash should be enough IMO.

I'd opt for a bit closer to the camera then 45 degrees, to avoid shadows of one person on the next, and to avoid one side getting more light then the other. For hight, IMO about 45 degrees is fine. (Allthough lower might work better if you have a lot of people wearing a basball cap...

Noise is irrelevant at any ISO up to, and including ISO 800 if exposed right. It will not show up in any normal sized print. All IMHO off course

You are useing a pocket wizard, so the flash is on Manual. FEC doesn't apply.

This is a shot with one off camera flash, through an umbrella.
Camera had the WB set to tungsten, flash was gelled to match that WB. I wanted the daylight to be real blue.

All manual; 1/80 (because there was quite a bit of ambient, so I needed to freeze motion) f/5.6; ISO 1600.

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Franko515 wrote in post #5949238
@jackies35

Not bad shots at all for outside in the dark

If shooting in the dark you have a few options

You can take down your shutter speed (drag shutter) to let in more ambient, or crank your ISO (you would probably have to take your flash power down to compensate for the higher ISO) but if its really dark there may not be much ambient left. If this is the case and you cant use the sky as a backdrop (always a great free background depending on time of day) you can add a backlight (maybe cross light as MPowered has done, i.e. if one light is 45degrees camera left the back light would be 45degrees right - behind model) to bring some seperation from your subject and the background (dark hair and shdaow side of face wont be lost to the background, and it gives a sort of DOF to the shot).

I hope this helps you out

Yes Sir! This helps a lot! Thank you for your thoughts, your comments, and your help.

I would be shooting again this weekend and have TOTAL ACCESS TO electricity. THEREFORE, i would be able to use the AB800 along with the 430EX. There would be 2 lights this time.... Let me practice before this weekend.

ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU FRANK!
tHANK YOU ALSO M POWERED, RENE AND OTHERS!

René Damkot wrote in post #5953316
Let's compare these two shots:
First is 1/10s f/4; at ISO 200. Second is 1/60s f5.6 at ISO 400. That is 2 1/2 stop less ambient in the second.
Flash is okay in the second, if a bit much on the left girl, but ambient is too low (IMO). That's why in #1 the street behind the guys has a warm lighting: The ambient.

RENE' thank you for you thoughts, comments, and useful tips...

I also appreciate you posting a picture with diagram, setting, and camera mode.

Like I mentioned before. I will be shooting again this weekend and I have total ACCESS TO ELECTRICITY. I will be using the AB800. I am going to practice all week long at night to see what the results will be. I just ordered a silver umbrella and another white umbrella.

Oh, just a note... I printed your comments and everyone's else and I am going to practice each tip!! I am going to get this right! Thanks Again Sir!

Chris71 wrote in post #5949783
Hey M, I have a question for you.
In your first example, are the lights set equal, or which one is set to put more light on the model? I know you said that you don't meter, but I have heard that the back light needs to be about 1 stop brighter than the main. Is that the case here?

IMO only time a fill light needs to be brighter than the primary is to separate the subject from the background. As Franko515 already mentioned that applies to a white background where the lines of the subject often will blend in.

Its hard to gauge which one is more powerful without the aid of a light meter.

Heres the model facing the primary (Octodome diffused strobe)

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Pardon me if this is a stupid question but in the first shot where is the 580 fill positioned?

Camera right and behind her a little bit? Was it purposely used to fill in the light on her body rather than her face?

The reason I ask is I really like the use of shadow on her face, I always seem to use a fill light to lift that away and for some reason when I look at my shots the shadows always seem so ugly. But they looked great in this one.

Guess I just have a lot to learn yet.
Kurt