help stacking filters (ND AND CP)

i just bought a few ND filters for a road trip im about to make were i will be taking ALOT of landscape photos, and i was wondering, what is the proper way to stack ND filters and a circular polarizer? im almost certain there is a right and a wrong order to stack them in, i just don't know! any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Bigbitt8706 wrote in post #5984482
i just bought a few ND filters for a road trip im about to make were i will be taking ALOT of landscape photos, and i was wondering, what is the proper way to stack ND filters and a circular polarizer? im almost certain there is a right and a wrong order to stack them in, i just don't know! any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

You know something, I wouldnt have thought it would make a difference but thats a good question...

The CP should be closest to the lens.

You do realize that the filters will be visible as most every "less than telephoto" focal length. And will be VERY APPARENT in wide angle shots. Why will you be needing to stack them?

Rad

I would think the polarizer would be the last in the stack (since you need to rotate the outer element). I'm having trouble understanding why you would want to stack filters like that for landscape shots.

i have an idea, it just won't make since to everyone else until i have the shots.
so the general concensus is the polarizer is either at one end or the other... well at least i know it's not in the middle...

What ND filters are you using. With any of the square ND filters they are made to go on after the CP. Allowing you to rotate the CP to the desired place and then insert the filter. If you are stacking screw on ND's you can still rotate the CP because it doesn't matter what orientation the ND. That is unless you are using the Vari-ND or a GND.

Like mentioned by Radtech mounting two screw on filter will definitely cause vignetting. This is one advantage of the the square Cokin or Lee system.

Bigbitt8706 wrote in post #5985922
i have an idea,

Now there's statement, that every time I said it when drinking, would pretty much guarantee I would end up in jail before sunrise!

Bigbitt8706 wrote in post #5985922
... well at least i know it's not in the middle...

Middle ?!!? You're thinking of stacking three??

I just want you to be aware of what you are going to get. Be ready to crop as only the center portion will be usable.

Rad

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Radtech1 wrote in post #5985705
You do realize that the filters will be visible as most every "less than telephoto" focal length. And will be VERY APPARENT in wide angle shots. Why will you be needing to stack them?

I've stacked 2 screw-on filters and haven't had any vignetting at 17mm. The reason I stacked them was because I wanted a really long exposure for a sunrise, and therefore used a 10-stop ND filter combined with a 3-stop GND. Now I've replaced the screw-on GND with a Cokin P sized one so I wouldn't need to do it again though.

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #5985843
I would think the polarizer would be the last in the stack (since you need to rotate the outer element). I'm having trouble understanding why you would want to stack filters like that for landscape shots.

as Mark says, put the CP on last. The CP can do double duty as another ND filter, in addition to the polarizing effects. Stacking is usually done if you don't have the proper strength ND filter to do the job by itself. I even stack a CP with rectangular GND's when necessary.

Also, the vignetting that you may get will be dependent on the focal length. Usually, the thickness of two stacked filters is less than that of a typical rectangular filter holder.

eddarr wrote in post #5986011
What ND filters are you using. With any of the square ND filters they are made to go on after the CP. Allowing you to rotate the CP to the desired place and then insert the filter. If you are stacking screw on ND's you can still rotate the CP because it doesn't matter what orientation the ND. That is unless you are using the Vari-ND or a GND.

Like mentioned by Radtech mounting two screw on filter will definitely cause vignetting. This is one advantage of the the square Cokin or Lee system.

Who says the square ND's go on "after" the CPL? Never heard that before...TBH, the recommended setup has the CP at the top of the stack to make adjustments easier. The exception is if you're handholding the filter (not using the holder). In this case, the CP threads onto the lens and then the filter is held directly up against the face of the CP (after setting the CP to its desired position). As a matter of fact, the picture in my avatar was taken with a 3-stop hard GND stacked with a CPL. I didn't have time to use the filter holder in my setup, so I simply handheld the GND in front of the CPL. The below picture shows the typical setup, with the CPL in the very front.

Vignetting? Not necessarily. With a Lee holder and all three filter slots installed, I do not get any vignetting at all on a 5D/17-40L combo. The thickness of two threaded ND filters, or an ND and a CPL is less than that of the filter holder, so naturally there would not be any vignetting there at all. In cases of slight vignetting, the larger sized files from the 5D will allow some cropping without much loss, but I've never had to do this. In the below picture, the CPL in this case will cause vignetting at 17mm, but is completely gone by 21mm (on a 5D).

And a word to the wise... circular filters can get stuck together really easily, so I wouldn't tighten them too firmly.

argyle wrote in post #5987680
Who says the square ND's go on "after" the CPL? Never heard that before...TBH, the recommended setup has the CP at the top of the stack to make adjustments easier. The exception is if you're handholding the filter (not using the holder). In this case, the CP threads onto the lens and then the filter is held directly up against the face of the CP (after setting the CP to its desired position). As a matter of fact, the picture in my avatar was taken with a 3-stop hard GND stacked with a CPL. I didn't have time to use the filter holder in my setup, so I simply handheld the GND in front of the CPL. The below picture shows the typical setup, with the CPL in the very front.

Vignetting? Not necessarily. With a Lee holder and all three filter slots installed, I do not get any vignetting at all on a 5D/17-40L combo. The thickness of two threaded ND filters, or an ND and a CPL is less than that of the filter holder, so naturally there would not be any vignetting there at all. In cases of slight vignetting, the larger sized files from the 5D will allow some cropping without much loss, but I've never had to do this. In the below picture, the CPL in this case will cause vignetting at 17mm, but is completely gone by 21mm (on a 5D).

That may be the difference between the cheaper Cokin system and the better Lee system. The Cokin holder has a small tab you can break off to allow the holder to spin freely. This way you can realign the GND's after setting the CP.

I couldn't find any info on the Lee site but the Cokin does recommend the CP being closest to the lens. But looking at your set up it would appear that Lee wants the CP on first. So there seems to be conflicting instructions. I think if push comes to shove I would trust Lee over Cokin.


I would also not expect vignetting using Lee or Cokin filters, one of the big advantages of square filters. But the OP is talking about using a screw on CP with a screw on ND. Unless both are the thin type he will most likely get vignetting at 17mm.

Edit: I'm still thinking about the this. I have found a few places that do specify that the CP be the first filter. Oh well, I guess I'll have to part with the money to get the Lee system.

http://www.camerapedia​.org/wiki/Polarizer

eddarr wrote in post #5988276
That may be the difference between the cheaper Cokin system and the better Lee system. The Cokin holder has a small tab you can break off to allow the holder to spin freely. This way you can realign the GND's after setting the CP.

I couldn't find any info on the Lee site but the Cokin does recommend the CP being closest to the lens. But looking at your set up it would appear that Lee wants the CP on first. So there seems to be conflicting instructions. I think if push comes to shove I would trust Lee over Cokin.


I would also not expect vignetting using Lee or Cokin filters, one of the big advantages of square filters. But the OP is talking about using a screw on CP with a screw on ND. Unless both are the thin type he will most likely get vignetting at 17mm.

Edit: I'm still thinking about the this. I have found a few places that do specify that the CP be the first filter. Oh well, I guess I'll have to part with the money to get the Lee system.

http://www.camerapedia​.org/wiki/Polarizer

I originally tried the Cokin Z-Pro with my Hitech GND's. I found the Z-Pro was more prone to vignetting, and didn't like the way that it attached to the adapter ring (three small plastic pins that are pushed in and out). I don't get any vignetting at all with the Lee holder, even with the three filter slots in place. Plus, it has the well-designed attachment method (spring-loaded brass clip). The 105mm CPL isn't a "must have" item to get started with the Lee holder.

As far as the order goes, I use the polarizer at the top of the stack as shown above, or I'll forego the holder and just handhold the GND in front of my B+W CPL (if I happen to be using the polarizer at the time).