Could you please not take pictures

Confidence and staying calm when confronted will go a long way.

nicksan wrote in post #6013337
Yeah, standing up for your rights is important. I'm all for it. But at what expense? Stepping over someones feelings? Making someone uncomfortable? Possible getting your ass kicked by a crazy mob of soccer mom and dads? I realize it's impossible to cater to everyone out there and you are always going to step over somebody's toes. However, common sense, courtesy, and respect for others feelings goes a LONG way. I don't think "I have the right to shoot, here's my photographer's rights. I am standing up to my rights therefore I AM GOING TO SHOOT DAMMIT" is the solution. I think that's what ultimately gives all photographers a bad rap. The sense of entitlement/right to shoot whatever the hell they choose to. IMO, it's not an entitlement, it's a privilege.

For me, it is an entitlement -- a right to make images in public places.

Granted, some of these locations mentioned may or may not be public places (schools, soccer fields, etc) but I believe the limiting of photography is much like the limiting of free speech. You cannot start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand (you can say this, you can say that, you can photograph this, you cannot photograph that) without going down a slippery slope.

Why is China not allowing professional cameras through the airports? To protect their children? Their nuclear secrets? Their human rights violations? Photography, like speech, should not be limited to protect the privacy of a few while restricting the rights of everyone.

As long as you put fear in the minds of your people, you can control them....

This was thoroughly used by the ****s in WWII.

Makes you think doesn't it?

Hoff,

IMO, although it certainly seems that way, my interpretation of our so-called rights are that they are not absolute rights. I look at them as privileges. Is it the best system out there?

There are certain things you can't say at certain places correct? So let's just say we have freedom of speech to a certain degree and I believe that our other rights are similar. They are not to be taken literally I think, just like the concept of democracy is not to be taken literally.

People are certainly free to interpret the rights as they wish, and I believe that's what people ultimately do, hence the heated debates on this subject.

So in that sense, we are indeed drawing arbitrary lines in the sand as you put it. People will always have a different set of standards, common sense, morality, etc.

I think we can all agree that parents being overprotective (sometime to a point of paranoia) of their children is a forgivable sin. Annoying? Yes. But not the end of the world...

TheHoff wrote in post #6013407
For me, it is an entitlement -- a right to make images in public places.

Granted, some of these locations mentioned may or may not be public places (schools, soccer fields, etc) but I believe the limiting of photography is much like the limiting of free speech. You cannot start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand (you can say this, you can say that, you can photograph this, you cannot photograph that) without going down a slippery slope.

And a tactic currently being employed by our country...:p

poloman wrote in post #6013449
As long as you put fear in the minds of your people, you can control them....

This was thoroughly used by the ****s in WWII.

Makes you think doesn't it?

nicksan wrote in post #6013509
And a tactic currently being employed by our country...:p

It's emplyed in every country. It's called hierarchy and social order.

I never got what the big deal was.

There's two kinds of criminals. The ones who plan out their crimes in advance (high IQ types) and the spontaneous, impulsive (low IQ types).

So if you're planning to kidnap and molest somebody, you'll probably plan it through and NOT be there with a camera making it obvious for everybody that you're there. You'll just do the thing you want without the pictures.

If you're impulsive, then you don't need pictures. You see somebody on the street, something clicks and you go nuts.

The third scenario is that somebody is really shy and antisocial. Maybe they'd wank off to the pictures.

but ask yourself - is that really that big of a deal?

I'd be more concerned about what pictures my child posts on their Myspace instead of what someone might take a soccer game. I understand the paranoia of the "unknown photographer" and I agree you should check with the coach if you want to be polite... but I also do not think we should back down when someone's unwarranted paranoia tries to trump our right to photograph in public places.

There are limits to free speech but they are anything but arbitrary (no "FIRE" in a theatre, you can't talk about @tt@cking the pr3zidnt) -- but having this trickle down to now we cannot take photos in a train station or outside of City Hall will slowly spell the death of nearly all candid photography rights (as it has in France and Germany).

nicksan wrote in post #6013337
Yeah, standing up for your rights is important. I'm all for it. But at what expense? Stepping over someones feelings? Making someone uncomfortable?

Sorry but the person who pegs me for a pedo without having a clue who I am didn't exactly consider MY feelings or care if they made ME uncomfortable. So basically, I'm calling people out for not living by the Golden Rule: Treat others as you want to be treated.

F*ck ya if you're inconsiderate.

In all the time I've been photographing children's sports I have never had a bad experience with a parent. Most of the encounters are...

1. Thanking me for being there (or thanking me for the photos I have taken in the past)
2. Asking me for my business card (or how they can see the photos)
3. Pointing out their kid(s) to me and asking me to make sure I get some good shots of them.

To me children are just tiny, little athletes and I treat them with the same dignity and respect I would give a professional athlete. I believe that once you get into the tempo and flow of a game you can get great shots no matter what the skill level of the participants.

If you are confident and act like you belong there parents will pick up on it and won't have a problem with you being there. On the other hand if you are nervous and constantly looking over your shoulder to see who is watching you it might cause some unrest. If you are the nervous type of person you might well be better off asking first if you can shoot the game. Once you build up your confidence and the parents get used to seeing you it won't be as much of a problem.

Tandem wrote in post #6013889
I believe that once you get into the tempo and flow of a game you can get great shots no matter what the skill level of the participants.

Only if you have a kid on the team.

nicksan wrote in post #6013509
And a tactic currently being employed by our country...:p

Oh Please...

Fear cannot be caused externally. You can be told to be afraid but you'll only actually BE afraid if you choose to be.

I see just about every corner of the USofA traveling for work and if there's fear out there, it sure as hell isn't showing. Frankly (if we're gonna go there) it's a lot more like September 10th than September 12th...

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #6013955
Oh Please...

Fear cannot be caused externally. You can be told to be afraid but you'll only actually BE afraid if you choose to be.

Well you have to take into account that a lot of people have trouble informing themselves from non biased sources. Take me for instance. I have a tivo, and I was skipping through the commercials for two weeks, but then I had no idea what laundry detergent, soap, makeup, breakfast cereal, toilet paper, or car to buy. I'm really impressionable, and I need to know what to buy, so I went back to watching the commercials.

griptape wrote in post #6014013
Well you have to take into account that a lot of people have trouble informing themselves from non biased sources. Take me for instance. I have a tivo, and I was skipping through the commercials for two weeks, but then I had no idea what laundry detergent, soap, makeup, breakfast cereal, toilet paper, or car to buy. I'm really impressionable, and I need to know what to buy, so I went back to watching the commercials.

Be sure to let us know when Madison Avenue gets your life squared away...k?

Our media creates fear in people every day and they do it all in the name of more sales. Weather men are a great example of this. "Watch out! Here it comes!" then, most times, no big thing. Our government does it so we will be more willing to go to war. Don't get me wrong, I am no dove. I just like to keep my eyes open. Haven't you noticed the big media blitz and rally round the flag stuff just before we attack a country? Belief is a powerful weapon.
Pesonally, I have never had any problem while photographing people's children. I do a lot of horse show photography. This is mostly young girls and their horses. I visit the parents and ask for releases and contact information. I have only been asked not to shoot a kid once. I didn't ask why, just put my camera behind my back so the parent and child where comfortable while the girl did her round. I think respect is the key. These moms really want good pictures of their kids. I post them on my website with password protection.

cdifoto wrote in post #6013896
Only if you have a kid on the team.

We never had kids of our own. Other couples let us borrow their kids whenever we want. In fact they will even pay us to take their kids for the day. How cool is that? What a country!