Could you please not take pictures

If you enter the public square, and someone objects to what you're doing, then you should expect a response, regardless of the law, country, or venue.

hortonsl62 wrote in post #6013077
When it comes to non-parent-am-photogs dealing with parents, I think it really matters how you stand up for yourself.

I think the wise photog is one who can stand up without being confrontational.

Well if you have a better way of handling it, I'm all ears.

I simply asked her what number jersey her kid was wearing, and I won't have pictures with him on it.

She seemed to be ok with it; and I subsequently asked around if any other parents have objections to me taking pics.

Tandem wrote in post #6013889
In all the time I've been photographing children's sports I have never had a bad experience with a parent. Most of the encounters are...

1. Thanking me for being there (or thanking me for the photos I have taken in the past)
2. Asking me for my business card (or how they can see the photos)
3. Pointing out their kid(s) to me and asking me to make sure I get some good shots of them.

To me children are just tiny, little athletes and I treat them with the same dignity and respect I would give a professional athlete. I believe that once you get into the tempo and flow of a game you can get great shots no matter what the skill level of the participants.

If you are confident and act like you belong there parents will pick up on it and won't have a problem with you being there. On the other hand if you are nervous and constantly looking over your shoulder to see who is watching you it might cause some unrest. If you are the nervous type of person you might well be better off asking first if you can shoot the game. Once you build up your confidence and the parents get used to seeing you it won't be as much of a problem.

I'll tell you exactly what happened.

I walked to the park and setup around the net IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. My gear was my 30D + my sigma lens + my monopod. I was shooting them during warmup and then walked over to the other side of the field along the parents sitting on the side lines when I was asked.

At no point was I looking around, or was I in the shadows. Balls came towards me a couple of times and I rolled it back to the kids before I resumed shooting.

I don't see how I was in anyway giving off a bad vibe.

edit: If it stays dry, I"m going back there this evening to catch another game. this time I'll talk with the coaches and parents BEFORE shooting.

Borbor wrote in post #6014746
...My gear was my 30D + my sigma lens + my monopod...

Ah, now I see the problem. I've always used a big white lens (or two). Black lens = pedophile.

Eh, what do I know? Maybe I just got lucky and met the right people. Keep trying, there are plenty of folks out there that will appreciate your efforts.

Twitch1977 wrote in post #6013018
I think this has an extremely negative impact on photography as a whole. I really hope you're not going to take this background check (whatever it is exactly I'm not sure) around with you to show people when you're confronted.

The burden isn't on the photographer to prove that he is NOT some sort of pervert. I understand it's uncomfortable to be confronted in situations like that with people watching, but taking pictures is not against the law, we as photographers are doing nothing wrong.

Maybe I'm way off but if you're shooting away and get confronted by a parent and then take your camera and run away all that parent is going to think is 'Thank god I stopped the pedo from taking pictures of our kids,' and they'll be twice as fast to confront the next photographer they see.

Stand up for yourself and photographers as a whole, we're doing nothing wrong.

Kurt

Hi Kurt, i'm just playing catch up on this thread.

no, this is not something intend to wave in front of an angry / paranoid / questioning parent. It is however a tool that will be held on official record and i can use to improve my paying photographic prospects and adds a degree of professionalism to my portfolio.

For example my local borough council have asked for some shots of the local parks and play areas. They were very happy that i had already taken steps and been proactive in what is a very delicate area.
the back up is i email them to say what parks i'm covering and i have their model release forms.

Common sense should not be mistaken for attacking the burden of responsibility.
If we don't act responsibly in these difficult times then we are at risk of missing recording a whole generation of children at play.

Pete wrote in post #6013033
This is standard practice for adults who regularly work with children (or the vulnerable).

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Criminal_Record​s_Bureau

Basically, you're not allowed to work with kids or the vulnerable without this certificate (which basically states that you've never abused those under your care).

http://www.crb.gov.uk/

Twitch1977 wrote in post #6013042
I have no problems with that at all and completely understand why it's required and feel it should be required.

The issue I have is if it's going to be used as a tool to ward off parents who confront him as a photographer at an event.

Kurt

see above

the icing on the cake is that i have been approached by a professional soccer team in the Rymans league to cover their players of all ages.

so the way i see it the choice is yours, risk the confrontation if you lack the people skills to avoid it, or get protected, there are enough horror stories on this very forum to make the path i have chosen the most obvious.


and BTW

+1 for cdifoto

Everyone......now that we talked it out--- we need a big group hug. Come on....you know you want a hug.

Bring everyone over here for the hug! Even the kids.

TheHoff wrote in post #6015108
Bring everyone over here for the hug! Even the kids.

But only if you have your official 'Not A Pervert' certification!

Seriously though Andrew748 I see where you're coming from getting your papers so you can do the type of photography and earn your living.

I didn't intend on directing my statement directly at you, it was meant more to be a general statement regarding my feelings on the subject. I really hope photographers don't bring these papers up when dealing with parents/authority figures in situations as described, I think it will be damaging to photography as a whole if some photographers start using these as a 'Pervert Pass' with the parents. All that says is that all the photographers that don't have them obviously are perverts with bad intentions.

I am just really frustrated with the state of photography in this regard where a few bad apples are ruining it for the rest of us. I hope photographers confronted in these situations can tactfully stand their ground and hold on to their rights. There is nothing to be embarrassed about or apologize for.

Kurt

<<hug>>

@OP - I don't think you did anything wrong.

Twitch1977 wrote in post #6015530
But only if you have your official 'Not A Pervert' certification!

Seriously though Andrew748 I see where you're coming from getting your papers so you can do the type of photography and earn your living.

I didn't intend on directing my statement directly at you, it was meant more to be a general statement regarding my feelings on the subject. I really hope photographers don't bring these papers up when dealing with parents/authority figures in situations as described, I think it will be damaging to photography as a whole if some photographers start using these as a 'Pervert Pass' with the parents. All that says is that all the photographers that don't have them obviously are perverts with bad intentions.

I am just really frustrated with the state of photography in this regard where a few bad apples are ruining it for the rest of us. I hope photographers confronted in these situations can tactfully stand their ground and hold on to their rights. There is nothing to be embarrassed about or apologize for.

Kurt

<<hug>>

Hi Kurt

I share your frustration.
I was slightly offended that you thought i would lack the social skills required to avoid this type confrontation in the first instance and would require a "pervert pass" as some sort of magic armour, but i hope we now both have a better understanding of each others point of view.

The thing is, that i am on "our" side, i think that the current anti photographer paranoia is damaging to society as a whole and that we have a duty to stand our ground before we become another victim of the erosion of civil liberties.

maybe this forum would benefit from a Laws By Region sticky

so we all know our rights and can choose how we decide to defend them.

Not a bad idea. One of the more 'civil' threads about the topic.

Borbor wrote in post #6014746
edit: If it stays dry, I"m going back there this evening to catch another game. this time I'll talk with the coaches and parents BEFORE shooting.

Good Idea--Please let us know how it goes.

And a well thought out and civil discussion on both sides of the issue.

We--my wife and I--have the advantage of shooting in an area where we raised our family and are pretty well known. And we have the privilege of having lots of our pics on local athletes facebook .

Be professional--ask questions--talk to the parents.

I think it's a travesty that the fears of a group limit the rights of the general public (happens all the time, just look at the patriot act), but I know parents are protective of their children. I'd suggest taking photos of adults instead, but I know that it's harder to visit their games. Try high schools.

I run into other issues and get forced to stop shooting in Las Vegas by private security (casino, airport) on a semi-regular basis now. I don't like it, but until I have some way to stop it I will just keep getting harassed.

dave kadolph wrote in post #6015893
Good Idea--Please let us know how it goes.

And a well thought out and civil discussion on both sides of the issue.

We--my wife and I--have the advantage of shooting in an area where we raised our family and are pretty well known. And we have the privilege of having lots of our pics on local athletes facebook .

Be professional--ask questions--talk to the parents.

Didn't go.

But they have games almost every night there, so this thread will be updated before long.

@ form: There's a reason why I pick the kids' matches instead of the adults. The adults give you more action maybe, but it's also more predictable.

You don't get that with the kids' games. It's 10 kids from both teams chasing after the ball together and that's when you get some gems that you won't get anywhere else. I don't get why I have to "avoid the issue" so to speak. (and that's what I'm doing if I dont' shoot kids games) Not doing anything illegal; what's the problem?

My experience is kids seem to be just having fun, whereas adults are competing.

Results are completely different.