EF-S 17-85 (made in Taiwan) ?

Amamba wrote in post #6021126
However as someone who spent years in / around manufacturing, I can assure you that, all things being equal, the probability of having lower QC and subsequent quality issues is much higher in China than in Japan.

We aren't talking about Japan vs. China. We are talking about a lens made in Taiwan vs. a lens made in Japan.

jmcder53 wrote in post #6021190
i think the problem is cost. look at how much stuff used to be made in America. all these companies look at how much something costs to build. "building it in America costs XXXX number of dollars, but if we get the items manufactured in another country, that means more profit."

This is not only about profit for the companies, but also to see who can produce quality goods at the lowest possible price.

HONESTLY, if Canon produced the same lens in the US and Taiwan and charged what it actually cost them to build the lens, who here would be willing to pay the extra cash for a "US made" lens? Keep in mind, we probably aren't talking about a few bucks, but probably in the hundreds of dollars for THE SAME LENS.

Flickster wrote in post #6018143
Maybe it's just me but I don't like to buy any quality product made in China/Taiwan etc, I like it to be made in Japan/USA/Germany etc a place where they pay people a fair wage for a days work and where quality has real importance not quantity regardless of anyone saying they would have high levels of QC in-place.

Maybe I'm just old school .

P.S I'm the opposite if Im spending big $ on an item and I can pick between a 400L f2.8 made in Tiawan and one made in Japan I would pay a fair amount of extra money for the Japan version. Must be my old fashion way of thinking .

Hmmm ive a lot of talk about made in???? If you take a good look (after 1 year usage) at the 17-85 made in Japan.... you can see a lot of dust... behind the lens from... used in the??! The time of made in? is very old school and means nothing anymore..... Most of the Japan Toyota's in Europe are designed in France... and produced in Polen and France...... but who cares......
they are from Toyota!!!

LeeSC wrote in post #6022004
HONESTLY, if Canon produced the same lens in the US and Taiwan and charged what it actually cost them to build the lens, who here would be willing to pay the extra cash for a "US made" lens? Keep in mind, we probably aren't talking about a few bucks, but probably in the hundreds of dollars for THE SAME LENS.

I can honestly say that depending on the item and it's original cost I would be willing to pay some extra $ for the added peace of mind. That is not to say just because it's made in the USA it won't have any faults or that I would pay thousands extra for what should be the same product, it has to be at least semi competitive.

Overkill wrote in post #6022372
Hmmm ive a lot of talk about made in???? If you take a good look (after 1 year usage) at the 17-85 made in Japan.... you can see a lot of dust... behind the lens from... used in the??! The time of made in? is very old school and means nothing anymore..... Most of the Japan Toyota's in Europe are designed in France... and produced in Polen and France...... but who cares......
they are from Toyota!!!

I know it is an old way of thinking in todays world of economic globalization, that's why I mentioned it however I still think there is nothing wrong with this way of thinking and see no harm in it, it's just one persons opinion.

I guess im a little over the whole make everything in whatever offshore nation is cheapest to manufacture mentality etc. For some items it's ok but I still like to check where items are made when I look at buying quality products.

I believe there is more to some products then just price. As mentioned before, I think companies should give more importance to supporting their own local economies and stop thinking just because they can make a product in some developing nation where they pay the workers a fraction of the wage that's all that matters however that's getting a little off-topic and I don't see this changing in the near future.

_aravena wrote in post #6021061
That you think the 17-85 is some pro L lens

Trust me when I say im under no illusion that the 17-85 is some type of pro L lens, if it came across that way it sure was not meant too.

Flickster wrote in post #6019248
I don't think I'm being prejudice, it's just my honest opinion and I stand by it. There is also nothing "sickening" about it, one would almost think you take it personal, I suggest you take a chill pill and learn to respect each persons opinion.

I'm not saying good quality items can't be made in these countries I'm just saying that given the option I would rather the alternative, it gives me some peace of mind, some may think that's silly and I have no problem with that but I know I'm not the only consumer that feels this way when it comes to precision electronics.

You're equating poor quality of products to a country and judging people's work based on their wage. Not to mention that you are mixing up countries (PRC and Taiwan are very different countries). That's gross prejudices. It may not be what you meant, but choose your words carefully then.

And to get back on the initial topic, why are you making such a mess of a non issue? You haven't even tested the lens that you already blame it. Reason? It got a 'Made in Taiwan' instead of 'Made in Japan' written on it. That's no indicator of quality. FYI, Taiwan is one of these countries that produce precision electronics. Asus, Acer, Gigabyte, BenQ... are Taiwanese companies.

cedm wrote in post #6022744
You're equating poor quality of products to a country and judging people's work based on their wage. Not to mention that you are mixing up countries (PRC and Taiwan are very different countries). That's gross prejudices. It may not be what you meant, but choose your words carefully then.

And to get back on the initial topic, why are you making such a mess of a non issue? You haven't even tested the lens that you already blame it. Reason? It got a 'Made in Taiwan' instead of 'Made in Japan' written on it. That's no indicator of quality. FYI, Taiwan is one of these countries that produce precision electronics. Asus, Acer, Gigabyte, BenQ... are Taiwanese companies.

After reading it again I will say maybe the choice of words were not the best. I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by it.

I also ask that you please not place words in my mouth as I never said that how much people get paid is a measure of quality or that quality items can't be made in these countries, if you take a good look at where you quoted me you will notice I said the very opposite.

You seem to have been offended by my comment and if this is the case I apologize as it was not intended that way.

cedm wrote in post #6018520
Gosh, what kind of ridiculous prejudice is that?

This is sickening.

+1!

Flickster wrote in post #6019248
I don't think I'm being prejudice, it's just my honest opinion and I stand by it. There is also nothing "sickening" about it, one would almost think you take it personal, I suggest you take a chill pill and learn to respect each persons opinion.

I'm not saying good quality items can't be made in these countries I'm just saying that given the option I would rather the alternative, it gives me some peace of mind, some may think that's silly and I have no problem with that but I know I'm not the only consumer that feels this way when it comes to precision electronics.

Judging by your previous posts it does come across as if you feel anything made in Taiwan must be inferior.

NSWESP wrote in post #6022856
Judging by your previous posts it does come across as if you feel anything made in Taiwan must be inferior.

As mentioned before it was not intended to offend and I thought I made it fairly clear in subsequent posts that I was not making a blanket statement about all products being made in Taiwan, I can see how the original remark came off that way so I apologize for that.

On the other hand I think it has been blown a little out of proportion by a select few and maybe some are reading into it a little too much. I do prefer certain products I buy to be made in X countries for my own reasons and believes so do many other consumers, nothing wrong with that, it's a matter of preference.

If someone came in here and said I don't like cars made by them Kangaroo lovers in AUS, I like my cars to be made in India because I think they make a better quality product. I wouldn't give two damns and respect their opinion and I love Australia .

NSWESP wrote in post #6022847
+1!

Well, i dont think it is really ridiculous.
Check out the mobiles in Japan made by Sony Ericsson, then compare their the mobiles that they released world wide.

Huge difference?

Well, you might say it is about lens. But in my knowledge, Japan does have more restrictions on their manufacturers. The quality may be better.
However, you can't complain since its as sharp as a tack

I think it all boils down to this.

Canon is in the camera business to make money. They make money by (hopefully) selling a quality product at a competitive price. I would think it is a given that Canon monitors its production facilities all over the world to ensure they are turning out products that fall within their acceptable standards.

I have a feeling if you look at the production lines in Japan and Taiwan they are identical. The parts going into these lenses are identical. The only difference is that one line has Japanese folks and the other has Taiwanese folks.

LEESC, you make some good points, i'm only reading page 3, so someone may have also made good points on page 2. i agree the thing with money is a big concern...
a john deere tractor (back in 04) would cost between 12 and 15 grand. when my parents started building a log house, they bought a chinese made tractor (sold in the US under the name FarmPro). 4wd tractor, 25hp, front end loader, bushhog, tiller, 16ft utility trailer, 12,500 dollars. john deere equivalent would have been over 20 grand. and john deere parts probably aren't made over here either.
i guess my issue is that i am having trouble finding a job. and when you call a customer service line (had to do this because of a bad hard drive in my HP computer) and you have no choice but to talk to someone you can't understand because they just learned how to speak english. i went through everything to try and fix my computer, and only option was to call. i've been labeled as having a medical issue, so some jobs are no longer an option for me. seems some people (someone in a wheelchair, etc) these outsourced jobs would be great for them.
sorry, just depressed cuz i have no job, and anxious waiting to hear back from the latest interview i had. kind of hijacked this thread, also. again, my apologies.

canons factory in Taiwan is designated to make lower end lenses. the 17-85 should be made in japan, but i guess its made in Taiwan now. nothing wrong with that, it just means that canon now has placed the 17-85 on a lower scale. i know that telephoto L primes have their own division where quality control is much higher, workers are probably paid more too. they do have a sense of responsibility, and need to know what they are doing, telephoto L IS primes are complicated pieces of metal, wiring, plastic, and glass. with the higher demand in the DSLR industry, quality control is becoming an issue for all manufacturers. i find that more and more zoom L lenses are having quality issues. i have a feeling canon is struggling to keep up with production. but definately canon has designated the Taiwan factory to have lower quality control then japans factory. quality control is labour and no manufacturer is going to pay high labour for low end, low margin products. i don't think quality control is the issue though. i am more concerned with the methods of production, manufacturers are constantly looking for easier, faster, and more efficient ways of producing products. and the balance of these three are complicated. i see less returns on 50mm f/1.8's then 17-40L's. I wonder if all 17-85's are made in Taiwan now.

LeeSC wrote in post #6023175
I think it all boils down to this.

Canon is in the camera business to make money. They make money by (hopefully) selling a quality product at a competitive price. I would think it is a given that Canon monitors its production facilities all over the world to ensure they are turning out products that fall within their acceptable standards.

I have a feeling if you look at the production lines in Japan and Taiwan they are identical. The parts going into these lenses are identical. The only difference is that one line has Japanese folks and the other has Taiwanese folks.

this is not true. all higher end lenses are made in japan and the lower end lenses are made in taiwan. this is simply because labour and capital in taiwan is cheaper then japan. if canon wanted to create a high end factory in taiwan they could, they just choose to stick with the japan factory for those lenses. lenses made in japan usually have more expensive optical glass, and raw materials are usually a bit higher grade. for example... 50mm 1.8 made in taiwain vs 50mm f/1.2 made in japan. if the 1.8 was made in japan it would cost more but that doesnt mean it would be better. its complicated. if you ever visited factories in asia you would understand. there are all kinds of factories. the canon taiwan factory being intended for lower end, low cost lenses. for them to be lower cost, materials, labour, and capital must also be lower. that is why the factory was placed in taiwan. land is cheaper there then japan, plus cheaper materials are easier to access. i'm sure labour is a bit cheaper, but maybe not.

Strange thread. If anyone cares about where the lenses are made, get L lens. Problem solved. Issue mooted. I don't know why it is an issues if something is made in China or Taiwan. Look at your computer and the motherboard, they are either made in China or Taiwan. Look at your monitor. Same thing. Look at you cell phone and the battery. I can go on and on. If the OP is true to his words, he should immediately dump all of his household items that were made in China or Taiwan. He would properly have no internet access, no computer working, no TV to watch, and no phone to use. He may not even have shoes to wear.

brianch wrote in post #6023550
canons factory in Taiwan is designated to make lower end lenses.[...] but definately canon has designated the Taiwan factory to have lower quality control then japans factory.

Is any evidence available to support this statement?

Alternatively, this could also be taken to imply that QA/QC in Taiwan is just as high as in Japan!

I don't accept that moving manufacture of a lens to Taiwan necessarily means it has been designated to have a lower level of acceptable quality, or that shifting manufacture to a different plant need imply anything about the relative levels of quality control in different plants.