Pocket Wizard not good with 580EX

Just wanting to know if anyone else is having this problem with a Canon 580EX (not II) triggered with a Pocket Wizard Plus II.

The Scenario:

I was wanting to get a shot of a historic tree in the middle of a horse paddock at dusk/dark with a wireless off camera flash. Setting up I have my Canon 580EX set to 1/4 manual power at 24mm zoom. Attached to the 580EX is one Pocket Wizard Plus II via hot-shoe adaptor plugged into the "flash" port of the PW and set to Channel 1, Transmit Mode, Both. The PW is fashioned to the flash with a bungee ball cord. This equipment is mounted to a gorilla-pod and wrapped to a tree branch 6ft above ground. 100 feet away is me getting eaten by mosquitos with my Canon 1D Mark II, tripod, and another Pocket Wizard mounted to the hot-shoe. PW set to Channel-1, Transmit Mode-Both. Camera set to Manual, ISO 100, Shutter 1/10, Ap-f11.

The Problem:

The Pocket Wizards won't communicate from that distance. So, I detach the PW from the camera and in-hand start walking toward the flash unit in the tree, all the time pressing the "Test" button on the handheld unit. FYI, I set the 580EX to never go to sleep in custom functions. I get 30ft from the tree and then it fires. I move back and forth to determine the range is now down to 30-40 ft. This is NO WHERE NEAR 1,600ft as noted by Pocket Wizard! After going through every button configuration I detached the 580EX flash and just had the PW in the tree. By pressing "TEST" on the Pocket Wizard that I have in my hand it is now talking to the PW in the tree perfectly. I start walking back to where my tripod is 100ft away and it communicated perfectly all the way to camera position. (To tell they communicate without anything attached to the Pocket Wizards, the intermittent red LED will stay lit as long as you hold the "TEST" button.) At night is the best time to test this so you can see the LEDs.

The Strange:

Now for the strange part, I swap out my 580EX with my 420EX full auto flash in the same configurations and it works perfectly fine at any distance. This is where I scratch my head. I usually can figure out most things from reading forums but this one has got me stumped. If anyone could give me some insight PLEASE do so. I find it very upsetting the $450 flash doesn't work as well as the $130 flash.

Thank You,

JD

First use bug repellent , also did you disable that CF that turns the flash off after something like 1-2 minute of inactivity? That would get me in the past until I turned the Custom function off. I can use my PW with my 580EXII 700 ft no problem(I have not tried futher, no need). I can even use it through walls.

i have never had a problem like this, but i do recall reading that the range i greatly reduced if the pocket wizard antennae is not pointing straight up.

Third sentence under "The Problem". Yep

PW's both pointing up. This is REALLY strange. They talk fine at any distance with nothing attached to them. As soon as you hook up the 580EX, the Pocket Wizard becomes stupid and can't read the other PW in my hand. Like I said, everything works great with the older, fully auto 420EX

Your problem was setting up the flash/PW combo up on a tree. I've heard other cases where the tree hampered the PW units ability to receive RF signals. The combo was moved away from the tree and it worked as advertized.

Here's an except from the Plus II manual, page 11 (bold-face is mine):

My limited problem solving skills telling me that the 580 is at fault here somehow. If I understand correctly you said that everything being the same the stuff works with 420 and with no flash attached to it. Maybe the connectors of the 580 are corroded or dirty or broken and causing a weird contact issue.
If you had access to an other 580 to borrow and test, that would make isolating the problem easier.

Answer....with pics

After talking to the engineer at our video production company, he explained why this was occurring. Both the 580EX and the Pocket Wizard Plus II are emitting radiation and both house oscillators. The flash has a DC conversion to power up for the amount it needs to flash. The closer you put the two introduces adding or subtracting from it's original field. In short, the 580EX is not shielded as well as the 420EX. Hence the 420 not having the problem. These were taken with my phone.

http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0219.jpg

There are two ways to avoid this miscommunication....

1. Separate the two units as far as possible.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0221.jpg

This method worked well but not great. I was able to go about 50-60 feet.

2. Shield the flash unit. Since you don't want to shield the Pocket Wizard because it needs to read the Transceiver.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0222.jpg

Yes. This may look funny but it is THE solution. I was able to walk past the trees in the parking lot and it fired every time. The distance was around 200 feet and it seemed like there was no end to the range.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0223.jpg

So, this is what you get when you want to use Canon's next to best flash off camera. I only hope the 580EX II's are shielded better.

Thanks for your replies and I hope this helps anyone who's pulling their hair out like I did.

JD

www.mitchellspixels.co​m

jdavideo wrote in post #6044906
After talking to the engineer at our video production company, he explained why this was occurring. Both the 580EX and the Pocket Wizard Plus II are emitting radiation and both house oscillators. The flash has a DC conversion to power up for the amount it needs to flash. The closer you put the two introduces adding or subtracting from it's original field. In short, the 580EX is not shielded as well as the 420EX. Hence the 420 not having the problem. These were taken with my phone.

http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0219.jpg

There are two ways to avoid this miscommunication....

1. Separate the two units as far as possible.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0221.jpg

This method worked well but not great. I was able to go about 50-60 feet.

2. Shield the flash unit. Since you don't want to shield the Pocket Wizard because it needs to read the Transceiver.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0222.jpg

Yes. This may look funny but it is THE solution. I was able to walk past the trees in the parking lot and it fired every time. The distance was around 200 feet and it seemed like there was no end to the range.
http://i39.photobucket​.com …166/jdavideo/IM​G_0223.jpg

So, this is what you get when you want to use Canon's next to best flash off camera. I only hope the 580EX II's are shielded better.

Thanks for your replies and I hope this helps anyone who's pulling their hair out like I did.

JD

www.mitchellspixels.co​m

Wow...looking at all that foil...made me think BBQ ready.
Helluva solution. Glad it worked.

JDAVIDEO... good job explaining on the solutions. This is a great troubleshoot thread.