Flash meters and Nikon + Canon wireless manual flash modes

I have found another sorely mishandled issue in the photography industry.

When using Nikon or Canon flashes in master/slave manual power modes the master flash sends a preflash to let the slaves know they should fire. This is manual flash, not ETTL.

This becomes a problem when you want use a light meter to set intensity for multiple flash units all at once or to optically fire another brand of slave monolight or flash.

Yes, you can press the test button on the back of each 580EX and get a reading but try doing that with three flashes all at once

The Nikon SB-800 has an SU-4 option that allows it to be fired optically. Thus you can set your master flash to manual only (take it out of master mode) and set it to fire a very low power flash that will not contribute to the scene but will still be seen by optical ready slaves. The Canon 580EX II $400 flash does not have this option!

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I purchased five 580EX because they are the most powerful, fastest recycling, high speed focal plane capable, wireless in manual mode, hotshoe flashes that I know of (besides QFlash).

My soon to be acquired Sekonic L-385 is now nearly useless!

Sure... sure I could buy $1,080 in pocket wizards that I don't even need...

OR... OR...

Sekonic can update their light meters to SKIP PREFLASH! What a novel idea.

You can set the meter to multi-flash mode, or you can get proper triggers. No reason for Sekonic to go out of their way to accommodate some random proprietary sync system...

Things you learn on the way to the camera shop?

You could also go to Cybersyncs. They are significantly less expensive than PWs.

bieber wrote in post #6053786
You can set the meter to multi-flash mode, or you can get proper triggers. No reason for Sekonic to go out of their way to accommodate some random proprietary sync system...

Wien slaves do and they are only $40

Titus213 wrote in post #6053799
You could also go to Cybersyncs. They are significantly less expensive than PWs.

I have been watching to see how others like them. Also looking to see what RadioPopper does with their version.

pcunite wrote in post #6053819
Wien slaves do and they are only $40

That's nice, but they're built for totally different purposes. Sekonic's light meters are used by an overwhelmingly majority for studio strobes anyways, where preflashes are never an issue. Why would they rework the interface to accommodate something that almost none of their users do anyways?

And like I said, the multi-flash mode should already work as a solution, as long as that preflash isn't putting out too much light...

bieber wrote in post #6053857
And like I said, the multi-flash mode should already work as a solution, as long as that preflash isn't putting out too much light...

Ok. I will give this a try when the Sekonic arrives.

pcunite wrote in post #6053742
I have found another sorely mishandled issue in the photography industry.

When using Nikon or Canon flashes in master/slave manual power modes the master flash sends a preflash to let the slaves know they should fire. This is manual flash, not ETTL.

This becomes a problem when you want use a light meter to set intensity for multiple flash units all at once or to optically fire another brand of slave monolight or flash.

Yes, you can press the test button on the back of each 580EX and get a reading but try doing that with three flashes all at once

The Nikon SB-800 has an SU-4 option that allows it to be fired optically. Thus you can set your master flash to manual only (take it out of master mode) and set it to fire a very low power flash that will not contribute to the scene but will still be seen by optical ready slaves. The Canon 580EX II $400 flash does not have this option!

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I purchased five 580EX because they are the most powerful, fastest recycling, high speed focal plane capable, wireless in manual mode, hotshoe flashes that I know of (besides QFlash).

My soon to be acquired Sekonic L-385 is now nearly useless!

Sure... sure I could buy $1,080 in pocket wizards that I don't even need...

OR... OR...

Sekonic can update their light meters to SKIP PREFLASH! What a novel idea.

I assume you have the 580EX II

You could get optical slaves from HERE (PM FlashZebra to see which is the correct one) for very cheap and do as you decribe the Nikon units do. Just set the on-camera 580EX II to 1/128th power, that wont contribute much to the scene.

Hope this helps some

Erm... you're doing it wrong.

In master/slave mode, even in manual, there are a number of preflashes to tell the slave units what to do. This is well known, a quick google turned up results from 2004.

Solution: get radio triggers and put the flashes on full manual, without using the Canon wireless system. You could return the 580s and get cheaper flashes, even with battery packs for quick recharge you should be able to get some cheaper than Canon units. Or given you need 5 lights you might go with studio lighting.

tim wrote in post #6053991
Erm... you're doing it wrong.

In master/slave mode, even in manual, there are a number of preflashes to tell the slave units what to do. This is well known, a quick google turned up results from 2004.

Solution: get radio triggers and put the flashes on full manual, without using the Canon wireless system. You could return the 580s and get cheaper flashes, even with battery packs for quick recharge you should be able to get some cheaper than Canon units. Or given you need 5 lights you might go with studio lighting.

Thats what I thought also, why buy 5 580EX IIs to use in manual mode. But I dont question people's methods I just try to offer a solution in the way of what they are trying to do, if its possible.

I totally agree though. I personally bought 3 580EX IIs because I like to travel light and have options, I can use ETTL, Canon manual (indoors) or use the PW in full manual for outdoors and range. I then added 2 sunpak 383's for use in the studio for BG lights (they are triggered optically). This set-up gives me lots of options and its light weight and travels well.

If your reasons (the OP) for getting the 580EX IIs were similar to mine, Im afraid your gonna have to spend that $1000 on PW's to get all of the possible function.

Franko515 wrote in post #6053943
You could get optical slaves...

Thank you and your right. But I actually can't use optical slaves as other flashes (from other people's cameras) would set mine off.

pcunite wrote in post #6054152
Thank you and your right. But I actually can't use optical slaves as other flashes (from other people's cameras) would set mine off.

Wouldnt that happen with the Nikon units also?

What are you shooting, weddings?

pcunite wrote in post #6053742
I have found another sorely mishandled issue in the photography industry.

When using Nikon or Canon flashes in master/slave manual power modes the master flash sends a preflash to let the slaves know they should fire. This is manual flash, not ETTL.

This becomes a problem when you want use a light meter to set intensity for multiple flash units all at once or to optically fire another brand of slave monolight or flash.

Yes, you can press the test button on the back of each 580EX and get a reading but try doing that with three flashes all at once

The Nikon SB-800 has an SU-4 option that allows it to be fired optically. Thus you can set your master flash to manual only (take it out of master mode) and set it to fire a very low power flash that will not contribute to the scene but will still be seen by optical ready slaves. The Canon 580EX II $400 flash does not have this option!

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I purchased five 580EX because they are the most powerful, fastest recycling, high speed focal plane capable, wireless in manual mode, hotshoe flashes that I know of (besides QFlash).

My soon to be acquired Sekonic L-385 is now nearly useless!

Sure... sure I could buy $1,080 in pocket wizards that I don't even need...

OR... OR...

Sekonic can update their light meters to SKIP PREFLASH! What a novel idea.

With my flashes in manual wireless remote mode, I do not have problems metering the flashes individually or all together at once. If you are getting false readings, try lowering the shutter speed set on the meter although I don't have problems even if the shutter speed is set to 1/250 on my Sekonic meter.

Franko515 wrote in post #6054144
If your reasons (the OP) for getting the 580EX IIs were similar to mine, Im afraid your gonna have to spend that $1000 on PW's to get all of the possible function.

Yes I bought the 580EX IIs for the lightweight and power that they have. And to answer your other question the Nikon would have trouble with other people's flashes I was just venting...

Yes I do wedding work...

PacAce wrote in post #6054334
With my flashes in manual wireless remote mode, I do not have problems metering the flashes individually or all together at once. If you are getting false readings, try lowering the shutter speed set on the meter although I don't have problems even if the shutter speed is set to 1/250 on my Sekonic meter.

I will have the Sekonic on Friday (via ups) so I can test then... But to ask you a question... your using a 580EX in master mode (manual output or none at all just a trigger) and have other 580EXs in manual slave mode? How is it that your master flash is not putting out a preflash that the Sekonic is not seeing?