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Thread started 06 Aug 2008 (Wednesday) 07:29
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Photographer prosecuted.. what is the world coming to?

 
ryant35
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Aug 07, 2008 11:54 |  #31

GM_of_OLC wrote in post #6064286 (external link)
I remember this, it was a couple of years ago.
From the angle the picture was taken, the "helpful" photo lab employee thought he was doing something else.
It was actually quite sad because they took the baby away for a while and the family went through a huge ordeal to get it back.

Yeah that's it.



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Aug 07, 2008 12:00 |  #32

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #6059228 (external link)
There are apocryphal stories of parents being turned it and charged for taking photos of their nude toddlers in very innocent settings (playing in the bath, in the backyard wading pool, being chased by a parent with a diaper). I've actually read a couple of factual accounts of such cases, but unfortunately can't find any valid links to those articles.

I completely understand the need to protect vulnerable children, but in a lot of cases it sounds like there are lots of people that read evil intent in anything that doesn't meet their litmus test of "appropriate" photography.

Evil thoughts are in the minds of the viewers as well as the doers. This is so blown out of proportion partly because there are (I believe) more viewers than doers.

Rent-A-Cop mentality at it's best.


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mrklaw
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Aug 11, 2008 04:51 as a reply to  @ Tixeon's post |  #33

is there actually a clear definition of this? Surely if topless photos of underage girls is illegal, then that includes toddlers? At what age should we stop taking photos of our kids acting naturally?


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Wilt
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Aug 11, 2008 09:16 |  #34

mrklaw wrote in post #6084981 (external link)
is there actually a clear definition of this? Surely if topless photos of underage girls is illegal, then that includes toddlers? At what age should we stop taking photos of our kids acting naturally?

When topless girls have ceased to look like long haired topless boys?! :confused:


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argyle
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Aug 11, 2008 12:15 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #35

Topless infants/toddlers are cute...IMO, twelve years old is a bit too late to be considered an infant or toddler.


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Mark_Cohran
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Aug 11, 2008 12:55 |  #36

argyle wrote in post #6086699 (external link)
Topless infants/toddlers are cute...IMO, twelve years old is a bit too late to be considered an infant or toddler.

True, but artistic nudes of youth have been around all through history with no puerile intent ascribed to them. There have been a number of photographers in recent years who were charged with child pornography for their artistic images. One was Jock Sturges (external link) another was David Hamilton. (external link) There was also the case of Sally Mann. (external link)

In all three of these cases there was controversy about their subjects. Jock Sturges was indicted, but the grand jury would not approve the charges. David Hamilton's works have long been the center of controversy and from Wikipedia "In 2005 a member of the Surrey (external link) Police in Britain wrongly claimed that possessing Hamilton books was now illegal in the UK. Surrey Police were later forced to make a formal apology for the incorrect and unsubstantiated allegations made by Detective constable Simon Ledger (see: British Journal of Photography, September 2005), and admitted that no legally binding decision had been made on the work of David Hamilton."

In Sally Mann's case, her books caused controversy when she first published a book entitled At Twelve: Portraits of Young Women. In her next book, Immediate Family, she primarily photographed her own children as they were growing up including nudes. To my knowledge, she was never charged with anything.

To many, many people in the world, nudity is a natural state and life in a "textile" world is unnatural. Other people see evil intent anytime skin is on display, no matter what the age and think their standards should be the norm for the rest of the world.


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mattograph
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Aug 11, 2008 14:00 |  #37

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #6086957 (external link)
True, but artistic nudes of youth have been around all through history with no puerile intent ascribed to them. There have been a number of photographers in recent years who were charged with child pornography for their artistic images. One was Jock Sturges (external link) another was David Hamilton. (external link) There was also the case of Sally Mann. (external link)

In all three of these cases there was controversy about their subjects. Jock Sturges was indicted, but the grand jury would not approve the charges. David Hamilton's works have long been the center of controversy and from Wikipedia "In 2005 a member of the Surrey (external link) Police in Britain wrongly claimed that possessing Hamilton books was now illegal in the UK. Surrey Police were later forced to make a formal apology for the incorrect and unsubstantiated allegations made by Detective constable Simon Ledger (see: British Journal of Photography, September 2005), and admitted that no legally binding decision had been made on the work of David Hamilton."

In Sally Mann's case, her books caused controversy when she first published a book entitled At Twelve: Portraits of Young Women. In her next book, Immediate Family, she primarily photographed her own children as they were growing up including nudes. To my knowledge, she was never charged with anything.

To many, many people in the world, nudity is a natural state and life in a "textile" world is unnatural. Other people see evil intent anytime skin is on display, no matter what the age and think their standards should be the norm for the rest of the world.

The artists you mentioned are so intertwined in "internet lore" that, if you google Sally Mann, you get Jock Sturgis images, etc......


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Mark_Cohran
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Aug 11, 2008 14:27 |  #38

mattograph wrote in post #6087381 (external link)
The artists you mentioned are so intertwined in "internet lore" that, if you google Sally Mann, you get Jock Sturgis images, etc......

That may be true, but they are 3 distinct cases. I certainly remember following the stories on David Hamilton and Jock Sturges before the internet and before Wikipedia.


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mattograph
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Aug 11, 2008 14:39 |  #39

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #6087521 (external link)
That may be true, but they are 3 distinct cases. I certainly remember following the stories on David Hamilton and Jock Sturges before the internet and before Wikipedia.

No doubt. It's a totally separate topic, but I always find it interesting how google "creates" identities for people, places, and things based on what you find on the first page of a search.

More and more of what we know about the world has less to do with what's true, and more to do with whats current and how its connected.

[/rant]


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Aug 11, 2008 15:44 |  #40

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #6059349 (external link)
Do topless images break the law, even if they are underage girls? I'm not sure about that in the UK, but that's not true here in the US.

I thought in US the women are allowed to be topless because of the gender equality thing? No?


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Aug 11, 2008 15:45 |  #41

mattograph wrote in post #6087591 (external link)
More and more of what we know about the world has less to do with what's true, and more to do with whats current and how its connected.

[/rant]

Excellent point.


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Aug 11, 2008 15:47 |  #42

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #6088073 (external link)
I thought in US the women are allowed to be topless because of the gender equality thing? No?

Good question. There have been a number of cases recently where women have successfully sunbathed topless in public parks because men were allowed to do so (they fought the case and won).


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ryant35
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Aug 11, 2008 16:07 |  #43

I remember hearing about somebody disputing this law in NYC...



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mattograph
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Aug 11, 2008 16:12 |  #44

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #6088073 (external link)
I thought in US the women are allowed to be topless because of the gender equality thing? No?

Topless sunbathing is illegal. "European" sunbathing, on the other hand......:)


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JoYork
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Aug 11, 2008 16:42 |  #45

I've never really understood why it's ok to reveal the breast but not the nipple. Why are people so afraid of nipples?


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