Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
Thread started 08 Aug 2008 (Friday) 06:41
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Nikon D700 initial impressions

 
condyk
Africa's #1 Tour Guide
Avatar
20,887 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 06:41 |  #1

It's a radical move to decide to change systems: not only is there lots to learn about lens and accessory options, and a whole new interface to get to grips with, you also have the cost and hassle of selling the old and buying the new. So the results had better be worth it when you look at handling and image output.

I thought I’d post my initial thoughts on switching as a few people have PM'd for views and it may help anyone else considering the same. I’ve always been brand neutral and bought what I considered might work best for me for the cash I had available – and I have no interest in promoting, or preference for, any brand as such. You can see all the gear I have owned in my Sig so I hope I now have a decent idea of what is possible.

Of course, beyond the rational decision there are always a few intangible elements like the 'thrill of the chase', all the research needed and the rooting out of best buys, as well as the fun of change: some hate change and some love it. I enjoy it! In many areas of life when things get too easy I can get bored, but I change only if there is good reason.

For me the lack of a reliably exceptional 50mm for the 5D, the appearance of the new D700 full-frame and the availability of the new Carl Zeiss line in Nikon mount were the reasons. Good enough? Let’s see …

All my Canon stuff below 200mm has now been sold. The 1D Mk II N and 400mm 5.6 L I am keeping for now as it is just a truly great combo for safari shooting and Nikon have nothing lens wise that gives the bang my truly stellar 5.6 L does.

Costs of switching


One of the great things about decent gear bought second hand is good resale value. Most of my Canon mount stuff was bought by acting quickly when I saw a bargain and doing the deal, or when rebates were around, so there was no risk of depreciation overall.

The Nikon stuff tends to be a tad pricier than the equivalent Canon when bought new, but some of that cost can be minimized by careful shopping around - all my replacement stuff was bought at below average retail meaning depreciation should be minimal if I sell/upgrade down-stream, same as with the Canon stuff.

I see depreciation on bodies almost as a 'rental fee' but on decent lenses I don't expect to lose much at all. The D700 of course is expensive. At release best UK price was £1998 but a week later with careful research, use of a free delivery code and a cash back link via Quidco I got it for around £200 less via purelygadgets.co.uk - an excellent retailer offering great prices, responsive service and a free extended warrantee. In the Canon line up you are looking at around £1150 for the 5D and then £2375 for the 1D Mk III.

Price will inevitably drop a bit more, but £50 here or there is not that relevant to me. The key longer term will be the 5D mk II price, but as the challenge laid down by the D700 is so stiff Canon needs to raise its game and that will reflect in an increased price over the current model. When the new 5D arrives then, as we see every time with replaced bodies, the original 5D value will drop significantly. Had I waited to sell then I would have lost another £200 or so.

So overall my change was as follows:

From ...
Canon 5D, plus 17-40 4.0 L, 28-75mm 2.8, 70-200mm 4.0 IS L, 24mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0, 85mm 1.8

To ... Nikon D700, plus 18-35, 28mm 2.8 AI-S, 35mm 2.0 D, Zeiss 50mm 2.0 Makro-Planar ZF, 85mm 1.8 D, 70-300mm VR, 180mm 2.8 D

It cost me to switch, but if I factor in the profit made on the Canon gear, the projected decreased value of the 5D when the new model is released, and the added cost of an expanded set of lenses then it comes to around £650 overall, which I think is OK - your mileage on changing will vary.

So the next question revolves around whether the change was worth it beyond the financial ... some of the factors will be subjective but handling and image quality should be easy to judge given I knew my Canon stuff so well.

Handling


The first thing I consider is how my gear handles in use. If a lens or body doesn't feel right then I get rid of it. Out of the box the D700 feels right: it is a good weight, decent build, all the buttons work nicely and are well placed, the menu structure is simple to understand and operate. It is fast and pretty intuitive. It is a shooters camera because the things that need to be single click with fast, easy access are just that. The grip is good, more sticky and rubbery than the Canon and better for it, and it feels secure in hand.

However, external build is more akin to the 5D than the 1D series so that is a slight disappointment given the price and it is boxier than the Canon design, which features nice contemporary curves, so again a minus for me.


On the other hand there are lots of small, detailed touches that make it nice to use, like the way the CF cover springs open, a larger CF release button that seems easier to use, the LCD protective screen cover, the LCD screen itself which is superb and puts Canon to shame, the simple and more secure diopter adjustment, the comprehensive rear screen and viewfinder information and its super-sharp, easily readable presentation, the fantastic viewfinder just like the old film days, the ease of changing mode, focus point, WB, ISO, exposure compensation, and so on.

The D700 feels light-years ahead of the 1D Mk II N, but if you're used to and happy with the 1D style lay out then a number of these factors will likely count for less. I use the 1D control lay out no problem but it doesn't mean I necessary like it! The D700 is also much nicer than the 5D to use even if you have less need for the three hands and two feet coordination needed with that model than for the 1D's.


Overall it's a bit like driving in an old 1970’s car where the switches and controls are a little all over the place compared to a car with an ergonomically designed interior. Again, your mileage will vary on this stuff. Some like the grunt factor of an old T’Bird … I prefer the more effortless elegance of an Aston Martin. But that takes nothing from the N as an overall package – if you want to get into 1D territory then it is the best option for your money IMO.

Specifications I am not going to touch on because they are all over the internet. Suffice to say the 444 page manual pretty well covers all the features too!


Gripes

First thing I will mention is that Nikon Capture v2.0 is only supplied as a 60 day trial and then you have to cough up around £150 for a license. I use the excellent Bibble Pro for RAW and it handles D700 files already so perhaps irrelevant to me, but worth thinking about this extra cost.

If I didn’t have Bibble already then Capture would appeal. It really does seem like a great package and the shots possibly have an edge over Bibble – more time needed but I may still switch if I see a consistent and worthwhile difference. So far I don't think I have. Bibble are also very responsive and with v5.0 close to release I will wait.

The lens mount is quite tight and every time I put a lens on I wonder if I am going to break something. It is obviously good that it’s got tight tolerances here so maybe I just need to get used to it. Allied to that is the lens caps and mount are all the opposite way to what we are used to with Canon – so anti-clockwise to mount.

On the lenses with aperture rings you lock the ring at as closed down an aperture as the lens supports, so with the 35mm that I have on it at the moment I simply turn it to f22, flip the lock and it’s done as a once off action – easy as pie, but until you figure it out you get a ‘fEE’ error message and it won’t shoot, which is kinda freaky! It’s probably in the manual but who reads those?

Lenses are another irritant … partly due to price, especially of the long stuff, but perhaps also due to selection. On the latter point, possibly the only lens equivalents that are missing of note are the f4.0 L’s, but for many those are the mainstay’s in their canon arsenal. Certainly for me the 17-40mm and 70-200mm IS L 4.0 were hard to let go.

Arguably, the loss of the f4.0 L's are balanced by the super high quality wide-angles that Nikon provide: 14mm, 17-35mm and 12-24mm and we all know top of the line widey’s are a Canon weakness.

The classic pro set up of 16-35mm 2.8 L, 24-70mm 2.8 L and 70-200mm 2.8 IS are there in Nikon form via 17-35mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm 2.8 VR. What is missing are the more 'mid-range' L's. Price wise we’re talking for the Canon £2904 and for the Nikon £2971 – probably not huge, price of a good CP filter, but it is consistent across much of the Nikon range.

What is a bigger issue for me is the price of their longer stuff and lack of an affordable 400mm option, which is a mainstay of safari shooting: no 100-400mm IS L or 400mm 5.6 L equivalent for example. They do have 300mm 2.8 VR’s at £2850, 400mm 2.8’s at around £5400 or the hulkin’ great 200-400mm 4.0 VR at £3600! Mainly big, fast, very expensive stuff.

This is where Canon rules of course with bang per buck around their slower options being very good. Nikon just don’t go to that market segment, but you do have access to the third party stuff if you want to go that route. After my next Africa trip I will probably go 300mm 2.8 VR or 200-400mm VR and D300 for safari in full recognition that Canon offers better value here.

Finally, I don’t like the white ‘Nikon’ lettering across the flash – looks cheap and nasty. In fact, the Nikon’s have a slight ‘bling’ look about them and I personally prefer the more understated Canon look.

Performance

It is the best body I have used … end of story. The image quality is outstanding. It is just effortlessly good: feel, sharpness, ‘pop’, noise, colour accuracy, contrast, white balance, resolution, whatever way you want to look at it the D700 seems to do the job superbly well. I have tested all my new lenses too and all perform well out of the box with no focus or poor resolution issues.

So, in order top to bottom, my very first shot straight out the box, number 0001, with the Zeiss 50mm f2.0, is about the sharpest wide open 100% zero PP crop I have seen on my computer … in the original image you can clearly see the plane of focus and the fibre in the manual cover.

You need to be looking on a decent calibrated monitor ...

IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/manual100pc.jpg

Finally 0007 is a quick, typical PP job with minimal sharpening and ‘auto levels’.

IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/cdcovers.jpg


Sorry they are dull test shots but this is pretty much what I always do to quickly check all is fine when I get a new lens or body. All hand-held, manual focus BTW using the focus confirm light in the viewfinder.

Conclusions

It is easy to be a fan boy and I have always avoided that. I can see the benefits of Canon and Nikon and for me it is knife edge. In system terms Canon is arguably stronger overall, but once you know the lenses you need then you can go either way and be happy if you don't mind paying the extra for most of the Nikon stuff.

I do believe the D700 is a significant step forward from the 5D, which I have always been a huge fan of, and primarily it is in handling and features; but my early opinion is that overall the shots are just a little better, like an ultra-light veil has dropped off the sensor. Stick a grip on and you get a great FPS rate too. The switch has been worth it for me. I would never say it would be worth it for everyone ;)

I'll add a 'high ISO' shot at some point but a couple of shots from last night seem to indicate no problems at 1600 looking at the RAW - I usually get nose bleeds shooting above 400 so I think I am pretty safe.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1203740

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MaDProFF
Goldmember
Avatar
4,369 posts
Likes: 2
Joined May 2007
Location: East Sussex, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 07:20 |  #2

Good report here,

One ? for me though, you say it is the best body you have ever used,, just wondering have you ever used a 1DS MK2 or 3, not holding a comparison just trying to get a benchmark.

I do agree, the Nikon FF body, and Wider angle Lenses are very appealing


Photographic Images on Brett Butler (external link) px500 (external link) & Flickr (external link) Some Canon Bodies , few blackish lenses, A dam heavy black one, couple dirty white ones, a 3 legged walking stick, a mono walking stick, and a bag full of rubbish :oops:
And Still Learning all walks of life, & most of all Photography.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
blonde
Buck Naked Floozies
Avatar
8,405 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Boston, MA
     
Aug 08, 2008 07:20 |  #3

wow, great review Dave and exactly what i was looking for. i think that i know what i am going to do next so thank you for this. btw, i couldn't agree more with you about Nikon pricing of their long tele's. if the 500VR was priced close to what Canon charges for their 500 F4 IS, i would have been in Nikon already.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
condyk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Africa's #1 Tour Guide
Avatar
20,887 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 07:28 |  #4

MaDProFF wrote in post #6069680 (external link)
... you say it is the best body you have ever used,, just wondering have you ever used a 1DS MK2 or 3, not holding a comparison just trying to get a benchmark. I do agree, the Nikon FF body, and Wider angle Lenses are very appealing

No, not used either and as mentioned folks check my Sig to see what I have owned previously. I think it is important the correct benchmark is established and good point. I'd say 5D and Mk III where appropriate which is why I added the prices in there.

blonde wrote in post #6069681 (external link)
wow, great review Dave and exactly what i was looking for. i think that i know what i am going to do next so thank you for this. btw, i couldn't agree more with you about Nikon pricing of their long tele's. if the 500VR was priced close to what Canon charges for their 500 F4 IS, i would have been in Nikon already.

:lol::lol: With ya there bro ... on the one hand you can respect them staying fast for sports and wildlife/birdies, but there is a huge market for slower stuff and 5.6-8.0 is certainly fine my needs much of the time in Africa.


https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1203740

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
egordon99
Cream of the Crop
10,247 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Philly 'burbs
     
Aug 08, 2008 07:55 as a reply to  @ condyk's post |  #5

Nice review. A local friend of mine has been shooting with the D3 and he raves about it. When I switched from Pentax, it was a toss up between Canon and Nikon, and the lens selection of Canon won me over (40D vs. D200 as the D300 was out of my price range), but I have to admit that a D700 with a 24-70 and 70-200 VR is VERY tempting, but my wife would have me commited to the asylum if I make ANOTHER brand switch (I just switched back in March) :lol:




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
canuck88
Member
237 posts
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
     
Aug 08, 2008 09:00 |  #6

Thanks for posting this. If a 5D replacement isn't announced by Sept., I'll likely be switching as well... I'm tired of waiting.


Scott

5DII, 40D, + a bunch of lenses, studio strobes, & other stuff.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
radiohead
Goldmember
Avatar
1,372 posts
Joined Jun 2006
Location: Hampshire, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 10:30 |  #7
bannedPermanent ban

Good review there, fair and balanced.

The one thing that jumps out for me is the IQ comment. So often I hear people who have never used a Nikon claim that they make nice bodies but lag for IQ. Well not any more. Those days are long, long gone IMO as are the days of one make having massive dominance over the other. It's now back to the system each person prefers.

You can happily shoot at 3200 as well, and 6400 is more than usable. I've just had an album delivered that has a D3 shot, 35x25 album double page full-bleed, at 6400 and it prints wonderfully.


Guy Collier Photography - Documentary Wedding Photographer (external link)
"All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the inability to notice." - Elliott Erwitt
"It's no good saying "hold it" to a moment in real life." - Lord Snowdon
My kit

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
condyk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Africa's #1 Tour Guide
Avatar
20,887 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 12:10 |  #8

Interesting perspective on Nikon lens choice here (external link)... agrees a huge gap is in f4.0 L grade stuff.


https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1203740

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
blonde
Buck Naked Floozies
Avatar
8,405 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Boston, MA
     
Aug 08, 2008 12:26 |  #9

i have been toying with the idea of buying a 40D and using it with my 500 F4 IS L and than buying a D700 for all the shorter stuff like the 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. i don't like the idea of having 2 systems but i just can't stand the thought of paying $8k for the Nikon 500 VR.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
radiohead
Goldmember
Avatar
1,372 posts
Joined Jun 2006
Location: Hampshire, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 12:28 |  #10
bannedPermanent ban

I can't for the life of me work out why Nikon have ignored the f4 segment.

That said, more than one pro under NDA on the d1scussion list has said 'wait until you see what Nikon have coming later this year, it's going to fill some major holes'.


Guy Collier Photography - Documentary Wedding Photographer (external link)
"All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the inability to notice." - Elliott Erwitt
"It's no good saying "hold it" to a moment in real life." - Lord Snowdon
My kit

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
condyk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Africa's #1 Tour Guide
Avatar
20,887 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 12:44 |  #11

blonde wrote in post #6071040 (external link)
i have been toying with the idea of buying a 40D and using it with my 500 F4 IS L and than buying a D700 for all the shorter stuff like the 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200. i don't like the idea of having 2 systems but i just can't stand the thought of paying $8k for the Nikon 500 VR.

I thought about that for a while but I guess I am pretty committed now to Nikon, otherwise I am always gonna be carrying two bodies rather than one a collection of lenses for it. I'm gonna wait a while though as seems there are new lenses in the pipeline. Hate to go 200-400mm VR and then have it replaced :evil:

radiohead wrote in post #6071050 (external link)
I can't for the life of me work out why Nikon have ignored the f4 segment.

That said, more than one pro under NDA on the d1scussion list has said 'wait until you see what Nikon have coming later this year, it's going to fill some major holes'.

Agreed ... what list you on Radio'? Nikonians is pretty boring.


https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1203740

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
radiohead
Goldmember
Avatar
1,372 posts
Joined Jun 2006
Location: Hampshire, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 12:59 |  #12
bannedPermanent ban

I'd be surprised if the 200-400 was replaced to be honest. There are areas that need addressing first. The release of the 24/45/85 PC-E lenses said a lot though - it's clear that Nikon are intent on really addressing the needs of the pro/high-end market. It'll take them a couple of years to get there though.

The list is here:

http://www.juergenspec​ht.com/lists/d1scussio​n/ (external link)

I gave up on Nikonians for the pointless anti-Canon nonsense that goes on there. NikonCafe is ok and has some knowledgeable folk there. I get a lot from DWF as well but probably no use to you! The FredMiranda Nikon forum can be worth a look.


Guy Collier Photography - Documentary Wedding Photographer (external link)
"All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the inability to notice." - Elliott Erwitt
"It's no good saying "hold it" to a moment in real life." - Lord Snowdon
My kit

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
52,922 posts
Gallery: 193 photos
Likes: 10114
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
     
Aug 08, 2008 13:17 |  #13

It reads like a very fair and concise review touching on a lot of important factors, ( while spending too much time dilly dallying about return on investment and depreciation! :lol: )

It sounds like a very strong alternative for 5D owners and new full frame shooters alike.

I'm not surprised that the menu system is better than the older 1D MkII. One of the most significant advances of the MkIII versions was the abandonment of that tired and frankly clumsy/clunky legacy menu system that dated back to the film bodies.
Both Canon and Nikon have been improving these electronic gee whiz menu systems additions to there SLRs since there first DSLRs and are thankfully getting better all the time. The MkII was Canon's last hold out for the 1D series who's menu system seemed trapped in time as the lower cost consumer models were getting better with every new release. Ironic.


200-400mm VR, that is a sweet lens, I can't imagine it is getting replaced any time soon. (released in 2004? ) But be warned it is big and pricey. Like $5K U.S.

I have to assume Noink will jump on the f/4 lenses soon. They are behind Canon obviously, but Canon's foray was fairly recent. It started with the 70-200mm f/4L and then took some time before adding the 17-40mm. The 24-15mm is very recent, and it seemed like ages we waited for that.
Consider the fact that until the D3 and D300 Noink really did not have the bodies that would take as full advantage of an f/4 that Canon did.
Now this is clearly no longer true and I D3 or D700 with an f/4 is probably likely to provide better results at higher ISOs than most of the older Nikon bodies with f/2.8 glass,


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
condyk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Africa's #1 Tour Guide
Avatar
20,887 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 13:33 |  #14

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #6071308 (external link)
It reads like a very fair and concise review touching on a lot of important factors, ( while spending too much time dilly dallying about return on investment and depreciation! :lol: )

One of the most significant advances of the MkIII versions was the abandonment of that tired and frankly clumsy/clunky legacy menu system that dated back to the film bodies.

Aye, well I was anticipating the most common critique (other than 'Duh, well Noink suck'!) and tried to show it doesn't have to hit the wallet too much if you are careful. Plus I am always trying to keep my hobby balance sheet nice and black ;-)a I dunno the Mk III bodies so can't compare.

Anyway, here are a couple of noise samples taken early evening, no indoor lights, curtains closed but filtered light coming through. First is 1600 ISO and second 200 ISO. 100% Crops. Best I can do as scared of the dark :p

IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/1600.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/200.jpg

... and the actual shots whole frame, same order:

IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/1600fr.jpg
IMAGE: http://www.buzzdns.com/200fr.jpg

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1203740

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MaDProFF
Goldmember
Avatar
4,369 posts
Likes: 2
Joined May 2007
Location: East Sussex, UK
     
Aug 08, 2008 13:50 |  #15

I must admit I think the D700 has thrown a lot of people, as it really is aimed at the 5d market, It is going to be hard for me to hang on until the new 5D, as I have wanted a FF for ages now, and quite happy having 2 bodies.
In my mind though I want a big MP body FF, I think that is where 5D won for so long, have been tempted a few times with the 1DS MK3, but forcing myself to wait.
If the new 5D does not deliver, Nikon D700/D3 will be hard to avoid with the UWA lenses.
Would Love to see a comparison of IQ between the 1D MK3 and D700 for bench mark reasons, and how it handles Exposure in extreme cases ie bright whites against shadows.
I am very happy with my 1D MK3 but I want a FF, and it has to be better than my 1D MK3 in the IQ department


Photographic Images on Brett Butler (external link) px500 (external link) & Flickr (external link) Some Canon Bodies , few blackish lenses, A dam heavy black one, couple dirty white ones, a 3 legged walking stick, a mono walking stick, and a bag full of rubbish :oops:
And Still Learning all walks of life, & most of all Photography.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

16,325 views & 0 likes for this thread, 33 members have posted to it.
Nikon D700 initial impressions
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is semonsters
1543 guests, 135 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.