Royalties as 'Official' Photog for Sports event, normal?

Okay, here's the story, I'm taking over the 'official' photog duties for a large scale 6-day sports event in September. The organizers are a little all over the place and I'm still working out the stone details with them, they dropped a bit of a bombshell on me today though.

Here's the details so far, as official photographer:

- I get exclusive package sales pushed via the competitor registration packages. (But not exclusive photography sales rights, its an event held in public and theres really nothing that could be done about the public/other photos selling pacakges. Thats what I was doing last year myself.)
- I get exclusive referrals by the organizers to any commercial interests looking for photos (Normally this would be quite lucrative but a lot of the commercial interests bring their own photogs so I'm told this really hasn't shown much value in the past)
- No other compensations are provided (meals, lodging, travel)
- I provide 5-10 'web quality' shots a day for the website covering the event as it progresses
- At the end of the event a photo package (40-50 high grade shots) is provided for the non-exclusive use of the event organizers (And this is where it starts to go wrong)

I've been reasonably comfortable with how things have been going so far, I've worked with these folks for the last 5 years so I know how they do things, I'm used to the disorganization and how to manage them. Unfortunately the photog I'm taking over for was MASSIVELY underpricing his photo packages to competitors so I can only do so much to moderately raise prices. (Folks here would still have a kitten at what I'm getting for 25-40 digital copy packages though) Based on average yearly sales by the previous photog though I stood to make a pretty comfortable figure at the end. The only thing that really irked me about the arrangement was the commerical-use shots given to the organizers.

Today I'm talking to the organizers and giving them the details on my pre-order page and whatnot and they drop the bombshell that the previous photographer was actually paying THEM a royalty for the official photog rights! This blows my mind and the old photog certainly never mentioned this to me. I'm not sure what percentage was being kicked back but even $.10 is too much IMO. I was willing to overlook the end of event package as a freebie against my better judgment, they're not flush with cash and I do want to see the event continue, but I'm damn well not giving them pictures (That will be heavily reproduced in all manner of media) AND paying them for the rights to be there.

Am I totally off base on this? How usual is a royalty arragement like this? I stand to make a reasonable dollar figure at the end of the day but certainly nothing to write home about. We're talking enough to buy a moderate L zoom after you subtract travel expenses. At those kind of margins I'm really not keen on paying THEM to be there.

Every major league or event I have sent in a proposal for require a % back. Typically it seems to be in the 5-10% range. If you dont others will...base you pricing accordingly.

Well I'll hash it out with them. They can have a % but in that case they're buying the commercial-use shots. (As it should be anyway, IMO)

Guess I'm still new at this.

So for exclusive rights to sell images they want a few pics and a royalty? Sounds normal to me. Do your numbers and work out if it's worth it to you.

Also, if the commercial interests bring their own photographers, try to get the event managers to make you not only the official one, but the only one.

These aren't "royaltys", they are kickbacks, depending on the location they can be illegal (only some places though, you need to check local laws, most have exceptions for private services though, so chance it's actually illegal is quite small). They are a sad fact of life for any business.

Do follow tim's advice though, knowing whether or not you can make a profit is your first indicator of whether or not you should go for it.

basroil: (RE: Exclusive commerical photog) Its a nice thought but it'll be nearly impossible. (Plus at this stage with the event only a month away the timeline is too tight) The nature of the event and the fact that they've run at a loss every year they've had it means they won't do anything to peeve off their commercial interests, I can't really blame them there.

Again its not exclusive rights to SELL, its just exclusive rights to be the 'official' seller. There will probably be a half dozen other photographers along the way selling shots as well completely unofficially. If I was able to sell shots for what they were truly worth it would be a no brainer, its just I'm locked into a really low margin sales model where the benefit is tied up in the volume. (Amusingly because of the margins we're talking about even if I sell at the high end of projections we're only talking about a couple of hundred it royalties to them tops, but that tells you how tight a margin I'd be working on.)

Anyway, if its normal, its normal. Not an aspect of the business I'd been exposed to before. I'll just have the conversation with them about what we're going to do about the photos they want for their own commercial use because if I'm paying to be there they're not getting those for free.

Hi Gordon,

This whole situation you describe is making me very uncomfortable.

First of all, I do shoot events, mostly certain types of sports, and work with a lot of organizers.

I'll only do so as the exclusive commercial photographer except at very large events where they might choose to have one photographer at a particular (and pre-designated) portion of the event and a second one covering another area. In these cases, I always try to arrange to bring the second or third shooters in myself... But, it doesn't always work out that way.

The organizers most certainly can prevent or control who is coming in and shooting their event commercially. I don't really buy that statement. Unless things are somehow very different in Canada. Public access is one thing. Commercial shooting and sales is another. The latter should be completely under their control, they essentially "license" the rights to shoot the event for commercial purposes.

You can't do much about a competitor bringing in their own photographer to do some shooting. That's a separate deal and one you can't really control. (The organizer actually can stop this, if they chose to do so. But it's a bit much to expect them to go against the wishes of their customer: The competitor). These photographers are usually allowed, with restrictions that they stick to shooting the competitor who hired them and not go off shooting everyone and everything else, and that they may not solicit sales from other participants.

You can't really do anything about news photographers coming in and shooting, either. But, they don't stick around or try to get good shots of each and every competitor, anyway. And, they don't sell a lot of prints. So, they really aren't a threat to your business.

I only offer still shots, and occasionally there's someone else doing video. I just don't worry about it. Again, this up to the organizer.

Finally, you can't do a lot about mom and dad or friends in the audience taking snapshots, unless the organizer places some restrictions on using flash, restricts them from access to certain areas (where you are allowed to go), etc.

Their image quantity request might be a little excessive, but may be sensible in light of the size of the event. I do work with my organizers and offer them limited, non-exclusive usage of my images. For one, any future promotion they do is good for both of us. Plus, they give me live links from the websites featuring my photos, which drive good traffic to my online galleries. And, I always get a lot of of promotion during the event, via PA system announcements, an ad in the program, and am free to include some of my my materials in their registration packets, etc. I also often get mailing lists from the organizer, or they do emailings on my behalf after the fact.

What really bugs me in your situation is that there's so little exclusivity. It's nearly wide open for poaching. Heck, you admit that you've done it yourself, so probably have a good idea how much business is being leached off.

Add to that they want a slice of the pie. That's adding insult to injury.

Boy, I'd be really tempted to walk away, unless you know for certain there's a ton of business to be had and they start to give you some better terms and more exclusivity.

I think it's very bad form to "pay to shoot" and set a very ugly precedent. Sorry you have to follow up on a photog who caved in to doing that.

If this keeps up and spreads widely, there may not be professional event photographers any more. The only people they'll get to come shoot will be kids with kit cameras with stars in their eyes who don't know any better or are just looking for the experience and to add to their portfolio. They won't have pro equipment or expertise. They won't have insurance, knowledge of safety issues or much business sense. And probably just won't get many very good shots with that 18-55mm f3.5 to f5.6 lens. They'll just be doing the job one year, gone the next. So the organizer will continually be seeking a replacement and best not expect that their customers, the competitors, will be very happy with the service provided.

It can be really hard to overcome foolishness of previous photographers, and I have to ask why he's not shooting the event any more? Maybe it wasn't profitable enough... after all they were milking from him? If he's out of the business now, it makes a good argument why you really can't accept their leaching of your profits and simply have to charge higher prices.

And, if possible, have you actually checked with him to see for certain that was his deal with them?

I can tell you that "pay to shoot" is not common here in N.Calif. At least not yet, at the types of events I shoot.

I have paid a flat-amount "vendor fee" at a large event, in the form of "booth space rent" for onsite printing and sales.

We actually had a professional organizer pay a fee for us one time when we were blind-sided by the "committee chairperson". This happened after the event had actually started and we'd been shooting for a couple hours. She told the committee chairperson "None of my photographers ever pay a fee!" Suh-weet! We offered to reimburse her, but she declined, so we bought her lunch!

I also have donated percentages of sales, but only for recognized charities in fund-raising situations (churches, local SPCA).

Fact is, it used to be the other way around. There used to be a "shooting fee" that photographers would charge to do an event, mostly to cover the basic costs of film and processing, that was paid by the organizer. With digital, that disappeared because of the misperception by both photographers and organizers that shooting digitally is "free".

Now it's swinging in the other direction, apparently. Event photography has already seen profitability dropping, due to rabid competition, more and more moms/dads/friends with cameras, people being more careful with their money in a tighter economy and more. I'm starting to think event photography might die out to a large degree.

It will probably still exist for kids who are "shooting for practice". And there will always be high end events where it's profitable.

But, everything in between these two extremes seems to be more and more at risk, less and less profitable, and feeling the pinch.

I hear you loud and clear and you make some very good points. This isn't my livelyhood and really this is the only major event I shoot where I ever have any expectations of sales.

The issue around the exclusivity is based on a number of factors. This is a large scale car event that progresses along 2200km of public roads among a couple dozen communities. There is no organized control. I/they can try and legally enforce exclusivity all we want but that's just asking for legal hassles forever, again the margins aren't big enough to make that a fight worth having and I don't think the event would bear paying the more industry standard rates that would make it so. (Keep in mind the competitors have been buying 30-40 shot full res digital photo packages for the last 5 years for a double-digit price.)

As for the previous photographer I really don't know why he priced himself the way he did. He was double-dutying as photographer and host of one of the video media packages that are done at the event as well so maybe the two combined made it worthwhile. (Though HE was kicking back 50% of HIS sales to the videographer who was doing the packaging!) At the price he WAS charging (Which I've increased moderately this year, though not as much as I think I really should) he couldn't have even been making travel and lodging expenses back. I know him from the event and we've always had an amicable relationship. I've talked to him since being offered this position but I haven't since this royalty question came up. I definitely plan to do so. He's only skipping this year because of prior engagements.

Frankly after stewing over it for a couple of days I have no problem paying them a royalty. They can just accept a hefty bill for my commercial use images when they ask for them. I'm quite friendly with the organizers and they don't have a lot of disposable money but I really think they need to acknowledge the value of what they're expecting. I'm positive they can find a local cheaper who will sell them everything hot off the memory card for some wooden nickels but I don't think they quite appreciate just what that will buy them.