Help with on-camera flash for wedding

I have a wedding to shoot this weekend - as a second shooter. The venue has extremely tall ceilings that make bouncing impossible and I also know that it is poorly lit so shooting wide open at high ISO is probably not possible. I will probably be using my 40D, 17-55, and a 430EX for the vast majority of the shots. I have a flash bracket (camera flip) and a stofen. I am thinking the stofen is basically useless since I don't have any surfaces to bounce the light off of. My question is, do the products like the pocket-bouncer or mini-softbox make any real difference? What do you use? If I do use one of these products and say ISO 400 with relatively slow shutter speeds, wide open, do I really need the bracket? I am not really looking forward to using a bracket and I know the main probably won't use one, but if it will make a huge difference, I am willing to give it a try.

I tried a few searches but couldn't really find an exact answer to my questions.

Any guidance or first hand experience is most appreciated.

Thanks!

I just shot a wedding last month with almost you're exact setup (20D instead of 40D). I used a diffuser box indoors angled up in most cases. For some large group formals inside, I went direct flash because it was so dark and my distance was far enough from the group that I knew the 430EX's range and power would be tested. High ceilings should not really matter if you are using a bounce card or diffuser box. Just do not angle the flash head too straight and you should be fine. I did not use a bracket at all. I rarely use it to be honest.

I usually shoot in Av mode so I can control ambient light. If it's really dark, you will be forced to shoot at high ISO wide open. Ceremony-wise, I have never been a fan of flash--talk to the officiant about this too. Formals, defintely, so aim for 30-60th range, and use the IS function. You paid $$ for it, so you might as well use it!

Yeah, I will definately try to balance as much as I can with ambient, I just know already that I will need flash in order to make it work and that there are no surfaces to bounce off of, so anything that diffuses the light upwards or away from the subject is a waster of flash power. It seems that some use the promax system, which I used to have and is pretty versatile, but quite big. I may just have to go down to the camera store and see what they carry.

With the Pro-Max, mini-softbox, etc, how much are the operating distances reduced?

Personally I like to shoot high ISO and avoid the flash. Typically I have to pull out the flash at the reception.
Crank up the ISO and use faster shutter speeds so you can get the shot.
I have a bracket but will never use it again--- personally in my opinion it is restricts the photojournalistic work I am going for. I did about 40 weddings this year and tried to avoid the flash as much as possible. I always have one on one of my camera bodies for just in case and during reception I have one on one body and then a pocket wizard on the other with an off camera flash hopefully in the right location.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=466874

cdifoto wrote in post #6105574
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=466874

Thanks, that was a pretty good thread. I was already aware of most of the techniques described there. My question wasn't really aimed at how to use a flash correctly (i.e. shooting in M and exposing for the background, using fec, etc.) but was more aimed at if a diffuser makes a difference when you must use direct flash.

Yeah if you look into the thread a bit you'll see some samples with very high ceiling. The point being, you shouldn't need to use direct flash. Bouncing is possible, even with extremely high ceilings. Unless of course the ceiling is dark.

A Sto-fen won't do much good direct. A softbox will do some good but not much unless you're really really close to your subjects.

Yeah, I did see those. Do you think a 430EX has enough juice for that. I realize it is dependent on the ISO and aperture, but all the same these are some super high ceilings - I believe it is 3 stories - with 2 mezzanines. Also, there are a bunch of cloth things draped across that would diffuse the light coming up and down. Here's a link to the location:

http://www.torpedofact​ory.org/rent/rentingvi​ews.htm

It sounds like I might as well just use direct flash if I can't bounce. It doesn't seem like there is much advantage to a pocket bouncer or mini-softbox.

580 only has a stop over the 430. So if I was at f/5.6 ISO800, go to f/4 ISO800 or f/5.6 ISO1600.

Doesn't look much (any) higher than the place in my samples, unless there's a lot more above that's not visible in those shots.

The only way to get direct flash to look good is to get it off camera. IMHO, mini-softboxes are too mini to be worth the stress they put on the flash head.

cdifoto wrote in post #6106027
580 only has a stop over the 430. So if I was at f/5.6 ISO800, go to f/4 ISO800 or f/5.6 ISO1600.

Doesn't look much (any) higher than the place in my samples, unless there's a lot more above that's not visible in those shots.

The only way to get direct flash to look good is to get it off camera. IMHO, mini-softboxes are too mini to be worth the stress they put on the flash head.

Thanks cdi, I appreciate the help. I really didn't think it would be possible to bounce that high, so I'm glad you have shown otherwise.

One question, when the ceilings are really high like this, do you manually zoom your flash head? I assume not, but I thought I would ask.

Also, I just want to confirm - when you are bouncing really high like this, do you bother using anything to redirect some of the light forward, like using a bounce card or something?

I don't zoom my head manually. It hasn't proven to be beneficial to futz with that one way or another.

Sometimes I use a small catchlight card. Usually not though. I'll do a few shots both ways to see which I like better & run with it.

BTW, don't hold me to the fact that I'm saying you can bounce in there. Based on those photos it looks possible, but none of those images shows the ceiling itself. It might be so friggin' high up there that you really indeed cannot bounce. However, don't just assume that because the ceiling is high up there, it's a no-go. Try it first. Go to ISO1600 (even 3200 is usable if you get the exposure right), open aperture, and drag the shutter.

Oh and if you do bounce, don't use the Sto-fen (or any other modifier that surrounds the flash head). It'll do nothing but reduce your flash's total output and possibly give you the impression that bouncing is impossible even if it isn't. Chances are that little 430's gonna be grunting a bit even without diffusion on it.

cdifoto wrote in post #6106108
BTW, don't hold me to the fact that I'm saying you can bounce in there. Based on those photos it looks possible, but none of those images shows the ceiling itself. It might be so friggin' high up there that you really indeed cannot bounce.

Don't worry, I won't be on here on Sunday trashing you because you said I could bounce it. I realize none of the photos show the ceiling or the color of it. if the ceiling is some dark color or just crazy high, I will have to go direct. I will do my own tests once I arrive.

btw - I assume I will be going through some serious batteries if I do end up bouncing in the room. Note to self - bring charger to charge second set while other is in the flash.

You may want to pick up a couple extra sets of NiMH and have them charged and waiting to be used.

Are those mirrors on the wall? You might be able to bounce off those or off of a standard wall.