This ever happen to you?

Phil Light wrote in post #6106207
I shot my son's wedding this past weekend. I shot everything in raw and I've been spending my free time the past couple of days tweaking and making my shots look their best. It will be at least a few more days before I can get the pictures to the couple.

As I'm sure is the case at most weddings, there were quite a few people there with cameras. One of the GWCs sent an email out this morning with a link to all the pictures he took. I didn't realize that in addition to scores of his own candid shots, apparently he was standing behind me during the vast majority of the shots I took. His shots are not bad, not great, basically just snapshots of what I was shooting, but what bugs me is it feels like someone stole my thunder. I was really looking forward to seeing the reaction of my son and daughter in law when they went through the pictures for the first time. Now as they look at them I think they will just view them as nicer versions of what they've alread seen.

Since it was for my son there is no loss of money involved, but geez!!!

You are going to have to one up the GWC. Do some create Photoshop and then maybe some nice wedding templates

for private events, I do two things:

First: During Family shots / Posed and pre-arranged setups, I am the Pro photographer. Everyone, including uncle bob and his 1DsMk3 have to go stand in the photo, or patiently wait till I am done. I have not shot thousands of events, but the fair amount I worked on went okay, specially when the newlyweds and whoever is paying understands the rule. (I explain some rationale, of what happens when my photo captures someone elses flash and throws it off balance, or there is a relative missing in the picture, or I end up tripping and breaking gear because someone is shadowing me).

Second: I am there to do my job. If everyone wants to be a photographer I have no problems, in the end my photos will blow theirs away. (Because if they do not, then I would have to rethink my whole wedding photog paradigm, or go to a course to get better). It is one of my responsibilities as the photog in charge. My photos are more creative, better shot, and much better presented than anyone else in the room. It is their Wedding, but my photo show. Any other frame of mind is bound to fail.

I shoot a lot for press, and so I am used to having to share sweet spots with other photogs, and often things get really crappy. Once we were trying to cover a heated debate, and this one photog who was trying to squeeze his way in to where we were, decided to go to the opposite end, so that he could shoot wide angle and we struggled greatly to get him off our shots. I remember having to switch to a really fast lens and blur him out of the pic via DOF.

scorpio_e wrote in post #6106872
Some Pro's explain why and I think that goes a long way. When a pro is taking picts, the other flashes interfere with the flash. The pro was hired for a reason. It is a nice jesture to let the guests take thier picts after the Pro does the pose. Typically a PS is not going to give you a good result when in the hands of rookie. They will NOT compose the picture properly.

I've actually heard lots of "horror" stories from my dad. His method of business was to charge a small fee for being at the wedding and then try his best to sell prints. That's where he made his money. I think in that era, that was a typical wedding photog business model. But he always did his best to be tactful and politely ask people to stop taking pictures he posed, but that didn't always stop everyone. Also this was back in the film days, he worked with optically triggered strobes, so of course any flash would fire his strobes. Anyway, he was at one wedding where a guy with an SLR would stand right behind him and shoot everytime my dad got them posed. He kept asking the guy to stop and the guy would just reply "Don't worry, I won't get in your way." That's when I'd have a hard time not telling the B&G "Good luck! I'm outta here."

Pinto wrote in post #6106689
But think how you would have felt if you were the pro. Might just be me, but kinda sounds like a child jumping in front of someone just to show they could do it.

Or maybe just a friend who wanted to present the bride and groom with a nice surprise and a decoration for their gift table?

I'm not at my friend's wedding to consider the photographer's feelings. I'm there to enjoy myself and celebrate with friends and family. I would never get in the way of the pro working but I have just as much right to take the photos and share them with the couple as I see fit. The pro is their hired employee; it isn't the same as having a contract to shoot a sports league knowing you'll make money on the print sales.

By now a professional should know that there will be a lot of digital cameras at a wedding and some of them may be run by pretty good amateurs. Acknowledge a loss of print sales as a fact of life and make sure to get your money from the DVD and the album. I would never step in and take a 'creative' shot that someone else set-up and I wouldn't even take the same shots as the pro, ever -- what is the point to that? But to say that presenting a friend with a gift is jumping up and down like a child is a little too much from the photographer's point of view and not enough from the couple who hired them.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107097
I would never step in and take a 'creative' shot that someone else set-up and I wouldn't even take the same shots as the pro, ever -- what is the point to that?

Some people wouldn't step in and take the same shot as the pro but a lot of people do. I think where it really crosses the line is if the guest uses the pro's setup and prints it for the wedding couple.

It's happened before to us too. But it didn't bother us since we knew people would still love our work after...it just made us work THAT much harder during the post processing to blow them awah

Maybe it's just that we're way more creative than your average uncle Bob?

What I'm trying to say is...if this happens to you, use it as a challenge to do something SO much different than uncle Bob, that people will still be floored.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107097
Or maybe just a friend who wanted to present the bride and groom with a nice surprise and a decoration for their gift table?

I'm not at my friend's wedding to consider the photographer's feelings. I'm there to enjoy myself and celebrate with friends and family. I would never get in the way of the pro working but I have just as much right to take the photos and share them with the couple as I see fit. The pro is their hired employee; it isn't the same as having a contract to shoot a sports league knowing you'll make money on the print sales.

By now a professional should know that there will be a lot of digital cameras at a wedding and some of them may be run by pretty good amateurs. Acknowledge a loss of print sales as a fact of life and make sure to get your money from the DVD and the album. I would never step in and take a 'creative' shot that someone else set-up and I wouldn't even take the same shots as the pro, ever -- what is the point to that? But to say that presenting a friend with a gift is jumping up and down like a child is a little too much from the photographer's point of view and not enough from the couple who hired them.

Didn't say anything about jumping up and down like a child. I said it was like a child jumping in front of someone, (as in jumping ahead of someone in line), just because they could, being a show-off.

An act like that is at someone's else's expense. It overshadowed the pro. I think it certainly lacks courtesy if nothing else. Just my take.

Ah, sorry, I misread your statement about jumping.

Again, this is only from the point of view of the photographer.

Why should I care if I do something at their expense? I believe photography is an art but a wedding photographer is paid to be somewhere to document the event and make images for the bride and groom. The photographer is an employee, even if they are making art. My only consideration is for the feelings of my friends, the bride and groom -- if I'm not in the professional's way and don't impede on their ability to do the job, I don't care at all what they think of me taking photos or how I present them. I would hope a professional would not feel so possessive as if they are the only ones with the right to make or print images from the day.

This harkens back to a previous discussion about laughable clauses in contracts that state "no professional cameras" may be used by guests.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107386
..Why should I care if I do something at their expense? I believe photography is an art but a wedding photographer is paid to be somewhere to document the event and make images for the bride and groom. The photographer is an employee, even if they are making art. My only consideration is for the feelings of my friends, the bride and groom -- if I'm not in the professional's way and don't impede on their ability to do the job, I don't care at all what they think of me taking photos or how I present them. I would hope a professional would not feel so possessive as if they are the only ones with the right to make or print images from the day.

This harkens back to a previous discussion about laughable clauses in contracts that state "no professional cameras" may be used by guests.

[Mario stands up and Applauds] Hear Hear... This said it, whether some like it or not.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107386
Again, this is only from the point of view of the photographer.

Why should I care if I do something at their expense?

It kind of reminds me of "the guy" everybody knows who, no matter what you've done or where you've been, he's done it better or been there before you.

At the heart of it, it's not about photography. It's about trying to show that you're better than someone or you can do something he or she can't do. It's about getting attention. If it wasn't, the photo would be given to the couple AFTER the wedding, not during the reception.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107097
Or maybe just a friend who wanted to present the bride and groom with a nice surprise and a decoration for their gift table?

I'm not at my friend's wedding to consider the photographer's feelings. I'm there to enjoy myself and celebrate with friends and family. I would never get in the way of the pro working but I have just as much right to take the photos and share them with the couple as I see fit. The pro is their hired employee; it isn't the same as having a contract to shoot a sports league knowing you'll make money on the print sales.

By now a professional should know that there will be a lot of digital cameras at a wedding and some of them may be run by pretty good amateurs. Acknowledge a loss of print sales as a fact of life and make sure to get your money from the DVD and the album. I would never step in and take a 'creative' shot that someone else set-up and I wouldn't even take the same shots as the pro, ever -- what is the point to that? But to say that presenting a friend with a gift is jumping up and down like a child is a little too much from the photographer's point of view and not enough from the couple who hired them.

I'm a little bit on both sides of this. I see Hoff's point. During moments like this everyone should feel free to shoot whatever happens, such as the kiss at the altar and do with it as they please. The photographer does not own that moment. My gripe was with someone basically shooting all of the same shots I was shooting, formal and otherwise, over my shoulder and then posting them publicly for everyone before I had the chance.

However, in this circumstance I think I would have waited until after the wedding to make that photo public or give it to the couple. I'm sure the photographer who was hired to get the "good shots" felt very upstaged.

Phil Light wrote in post #6107488
I'm sure the photographer who was hired to get the "good shots" felt very upstaged.

In theory, the hired photographer is a pro, and does not mix business with emotions. He would graciously post his incredible work at the right time, collect his hefty fee, and move on.

scobols wrote in post #6107466
At the heart of it, it's not about photography. It's about trying to show that you're better than someone or you can do something he or she can't do. It's about getting attention. If it wasn't, the photo would be given to the couple AFTER the wedding, not during the reception.

Again, the point of view of a photographer, not of a bride and groom or their invited guests.

The point was to have the photo at the reception, on the gift table, as decoration and as part of the celebration. My point was not to impress, upstage, or otherwise traumatize the professional photographer. I didn't think one minute about what they might say, only what my friends would think. I'm not sure why anyone would consider the professional's feelings in this situation when the pro is an employee and I, as an invited guest, want to give a gift.

Should the wedding DJ feel upstaged when their music is stopped while a guest sings a song at the reception? Isn't that just showing off with something the DJ may or may not be able to do?

scobols wrote in post #6107466
It kind of reminds me of "the guy" everybody knows who, no matter what you've done or where you've been, he's done it better or been there before you.

At the heart of it, it's not about photography. It's about trying to show that you're better than someone or you can do something he or she can't do. It's about getting attention. If it wasn't, the photo would be given to the couple AFTER the wedding, not during the reception.

Seriously? The photographer's feelings should be considered as you decide when and how to present a gift to the couple? And I went through my whole life considering the feelings of the gift recipient!

There are 2 issues here. If the bride or groom's parent was taking the photos, I can understand being sensitive of them wanting to be the one to capture and share those special moments FIRST. The photographer having some kind of special privilege to be the only one with a camera or ability to produce an image? Umm. no.

Pinto wrote in post #6107298
An act like that is at someone's else's expense. It overshadowed the pro. I think it certainly lacks courtesy if nothing else. Just my take.

Look at it from the guest's perspective. If I wanted to do something nice for my friend, why should I care about how the photographer (somebody I've never met and will probably never see again) feels about it? It's a wedding, not a photo shoot. As long as the guest doesn't interfere with or otherwise prevent the photographer from doing his job, I fail to see the problem.

As a photographer, I understand where the frustration is coming from. If you're shooting formals and other guests with their cameras are causing problems (i.e. their flashes are interfering with your shot, or their presence is making people in the photo look at their camera instead of yours while you're shooting, etc), then yes, you should politely ask them to wait until you're done so you can do the job the couple is paying you to do. But while they shouldn't keep you from doing your job, there's really not a single reason the guest should care if you get your feelings hurt because they want to do something nice for the bride and groom. Get over it and finish your job. Quite frankly, assuming the guest did something like that just to spite or overshadow the photographer is pretty presumptuous and a little arrogant. As PhotoJourno said, you're their to do your job and get paid, not stand there and feel good about yourself.

(Yes, I'm kinda playing the devil's advocate here. We, as photographers, will all have our own perspective on issues like this, but step back and look at it from a guest's point of view. Sure, everybody should treat everybody else with respect and courtesy, but it's not the guests perogative to worry about the photographer's bottom line).