This ever happen to you?

Yeah, I suggest screeners at the doors removing any Camera-like devices (including cellphones), and a bodyguard following the photographer for safety, but also to throw any photo smuggler visibly out of the way.

Uhm... Anyone got a suggestion as to how I should word it in my wedding contracts?

You've shot political events, right? I could see a line-up like that where the bags are checked before entry, that way you can inspect every camera and make sure nothing over 5 mp gets in.

BTW, in response to a post above that I missed, the shot that I printed wasn't of a set-up or an approximation of the pro's shot, it was from my seat as a guest of their first kiss.

TheHoff wrote in post #6107627
You've shot political events, right? I could see a line-up like that where the bags are checked before entry, that way you can inspect every camera and make sure nothing over 5 mp gets in...

Every government facility and political figures (govs, sens, and above) you even have to check your gear up to three hours previous to the event. USSS or whoever else will actually ask you to remove lens from camera, look through lens to make sure it is not filled with a substitute, then ask you to take a photo and show them the camera works, and etc etc etc. And you're on the quick entry Press/Media line !!...

Anyhow, sorry everyone. Back on topic.

Alright, I'm going to take a totally different perspective on this whole issue. To do so I have to make one fairly large assumption -- the picture of the first kiss just kind of showed up on the table without a lot of fanfare.

The majority of the guests are going to be too wrapped up in the moment to even think about anything too deeply. They will see a picture of the first kiss and fall in love with it. If there are any soon to be married ladies there, they aren't going to ask the couple "who was your friend that put the picture on the table" - they probably won't even know where it came from. BUT, seeing that picture may help them to remember that wedding and the pictures from it. So they may ask "who was your photographer?"

So you made your friends very happy with the surprise picture and, in a twisted sort of way, could have helped the photographer earn more business.

Wow interesting discussion. Its clearly one based on point of view. From the guest's PoV, enjoying the event and all that means is paramount. From the pro's PoV, doing the best job they can is critical.

But what seems lost here is what the B&G want. Anybody bother to ask?

When interviewing for our wedding one photographer, the one we choose, asked us. He brought this very point up, saying he's willing to work either way. He explained how one style might produce better results, but that it might impede on the guest's enjoyment some. He also explained how the results *might* suffer slightly, but that the guests should feel free to do their thing... in other words, he was asking us if we wanted him to run the show, or if he was to take on the role of observer only.

He brought up and we discussed how to handle it if a guest was impeding his his ability and if we choose the former. Explained how this can sometimes be uncomfortable.

We ultimately chose a hybrid. There was clear time set aside for the pro, but most of the time he was to use his creativity and work with what the experience presented. He turned in some amazing results and nobody felt like he was trying to run the show.

So... why not ask, explain and communicate before the event? Maybe its best not to assume you know how the B&G want things done? Worked for us anyway...

JDB wrote in post #6107597
Look at it from the guest's perspective. If I wanted to do something nice for my friend, why should I care about how the photographer (somebody I've never met and will probably never see again) feels about it? It's a wedding, not a photo shoot. As long as the guest doesn't interfere with or otherwise prevent the photographer from doing his job, I fail to see the problem.

As a photographer, I understand where the frustration is coming from. If you're shooting formals and other guests with their cameras are causing problems (i.e. their flashes are interfering with your shot, or their presence is making people in the photo look at their camera instead of yours while you're shooting, etc), then yes, you should politely ask them to wait until you're done so you can do the job the couple is paying you to do. But while they shouldn't keep you from doing your job, there's really not a single reason the guest should care if you get your feelings hurt because they want to do something nice for the bride and groom. Get over it and finish your job. Quite frankly, assuming the guest did something like that just to spite or overshadow the photographer is pretty presumptuous and a little arrogant. As PhotoJourno said, you're their to do your job and get paid, not stand there and feel good about yourself.

(Yes, I'm kinda playing the devil's advocate here. We, as photographers, will all have our own perspective on issues like this, but step back and look at it from a guest's point of view. Sure, everybody should treat everybody else with respect and courtesy, but it's not the guests perogative to worry about the photographer's bottom line).

In theory, you're right, and why should a pro care about it at all, after all if the bride and groom wanted snapshots from anyone at the wedding they would have have hired the pro. But in practice it's no longer so, especially now that everyone wants/has an SLR. I've had plenty of shots ruined by some idiot's point and shoot, and some things you can't just reshoot.

The best way to go around this is to simply have a no-camera policy in your contract. Pretty much says, "if anyone other than me or people i authorize pulls out a camera, i cannot be held responsible for missed or ruined shots caused by a third party". Or just have a generalized cooperation clause. What if you miss the kiss because uncle bob with his xt and kit lens decides to walk in front of you? Or if aunt jenny's kid brother brings his d60 and an sb800 and nukes your shot? The pro and the bride/groom will be the only ones hurt by this. Pro missed out on a necessary shot and possibly a great deal of sales, and possibly a bit of future clients. Bride/groom no longer can have a good version of the shot and instead have some blurred out underexposed one from the kid brother instead.

I am of the opinion that there are going to be cameras at a wedding. These cameras are going to range from 1.0 megapixel P&S to impressive DSLRs with L-series glass. Fine and dandy. As long as these cameras stay out of my way when I'm shooting, I'm cool with that. It's a fact of life.

BUT... and it's a BIG but - the moment their flash gets in the way of my shot, or they start shadowing me to get THE SHOT... that's where I draw the line. I draw the line because, whether they know it or not, they are in my way. Not because they are stealing my thunder, but because their flash is ruining my shot. They are in my personal space, causing a danger to me and my equipment... they need to stay the heck away from me when I'm shooting.

If they shoot from another location - cool. They aren't in my way. But, don't get close to me, or you'll find your camera rammed in a place that will be difficult to remove without surgery! heh heh

Hoff, Man sorry but I have to side with Pinto on this. Just doesn't sound right. I buy into the fact that you wanted to do something nice for the B&G and I think they will appreciate it. However, I just think there is more to it than that.

I say this not having ever had the pleaure of meeting you. But I know most us that do wedding professionally have a bit of ego. We love most our work and love for people to compliment our work. That said, I just feel in some sort of way you did this to say look at me, I am a photographer to and can do just as good as this guy, don't believe me look at my picture! Just seems on the surface like a one up the photographer moment!

Now, Like Hotshot's said. If the picture discretely showed up, and was sitting there with no name, who know's other's may think the main photog put it there and it help their sales. Regardless, I may have taken a photo but would have at least had it wrapped.

Now Please tell me there was no business card attached to the frame? LOL j/k and yes this is from a photographers pov!

Greg

At my last wedding, a guest, not a pro, was asked to video the wedding. I like to stay near the back so I am not in the guest's way. Moments before the kiss, she jumps into aisle and blocks the whole view from the back. I had to run up next to her to get photos of the kiss. I didn't complain, and my feelings weren't hurt. I did what I had to do and got the shot.

Now, Andrea, I'm not saying anything about the feelings of the pro. I agree, get over it. I am simply stating that the reason somebody, other than the hired pro, would print out a photo and place it on the table is simply to get attention. How does that compare to the other gifts on the table? Is it somehow better? Is it more important? Why should everyone else wrap their gifts and not you?

710 Studio wrote in post #6107857
If they shoot from another location - cool. They aren't in my way.

As long as the subjects eyes are still looking at me and not them.

scobols wrote in post #6107886
At my last wedding, a guest, not a pro, was asked to video the wedding. I like to stay near the back so I am not in the guest's way. Moments before the kiss, she jumps into aisle and blocks the whole view from the back. I had to run up next to her to get photos of the kiss. I didn't complain, and my feelings weren't hurt. I did what I had to do and got the shot.

Now, Andrea, I'm not saying anything about the feelings of the pro. I agree, get over it. I am simply stating that the reason somebody, other than the hired pro, would print out a photo and place it on the table is simply to get attention. How does that compare to the other gifts on the table. Is it somehow better? Is it more important? Why should everyone else wrap their gifts and not you???

Excellent point.

scobols wrote in post #6107886
Now, Andrea, I'm not saying anything about the feelings of the pro. I agree, get over it. I am simply stating that the reason somebody, other than the hired pro, would print out a photo and place it on the table is simply to get attention. How does that compare to the other gifts on the table? Is it somehow better? Is it more important? Why should everyone else wrap their gifts and not you?

By this logic, the florist should be upset when a guest brings flowers, then? Or how about the pastry chef when someone brings some fresh baked bread or their favorite dip? Maybe its Mom's special recipe apple pie?

There are a thousand reasons a guest might choose to show their love and affection for the B&G that have nothing to do with attention getting.

JasonWilliam wrote in post #6107999
By this logic, the florist should be upset when a guest brings flowers, then? Or how about the pastry chef when someone brings some fresh baked bread?

There are a thousand reasons a guest might choose to show their love and affection for the B&G that have nothing to do with attention getting.

Why are you saying anyone would be upset? Like I said, the pro can get over it. All I'm saying is it's done to get attention - period.

scobols wrote in post #6108012
Why are you saying anyone would be upset? Like I said, the pro can get over it. All I'm saying is it's done to get attention - period.

Seems a pretty narrow point of view. Perhaps thats the only reason you might do it. But to say thats the only reason someone else might is... short sighted.

Perhaps seeing that kiss would mean something to Mom and Dad who had a similar pic taken at their wedding, and the guest knew it would remind them. Perhaps grammy is unable to see well, and could only enjoy the kiss in picture form. Maybe...

scobols wrote in post #6107904
As long as the subjects eyes are still looking at me and not them.

Exception noted!!!