Shooting in a ballroom with low light: Some advice please

Zansho wrote in post #6206783
Btw, if you plan to mount them to something like a beam or some corner fixture, you shouldn't really depend on the clamp to keep them there. I usually put a bungee attachment on there to keep them secure in addition to the clamp, and I've been known to use some gaffer's tape.

In all honesty, I only use the extra lights when the lighting is so terrible that I can't get anything worthwhile. If I can bounce my flash reasonably well, and can balance my color temperatures via the use of gel, I generally don't use off camera all that much, except for some "artistic" shots. KISS method is usually the way to go .

Exactly, and thank you Zansho. My intent is not to light the hall. I'm going to have the off camera flashes on light stands, not clamps. When I do use flahses on clamps I always have large cable ties as a safety. Super Clamps are great but I'm always prepared for an accident or loosening of a clamp.

Before I even set up the off camera flashes I'm going to work with available light and an on camera flash with a nice large custom bounce card.

tim wrote in post #6206800
No need to attack me, I was just making a suggestion. Good luck.

I'm not attacking but it irks me when someone states the gear they have to work with and someone chimes in with a suggestion to spend money or get more gear. That is hardly helping. Why not tell me to rent a D3 so I can work at ISO 6400 and then I don't have to worry about light at all?

Go with the standard low light setup then, high iso and flash to light the subject, bounced or diffused if you like. You could set up one off-camera light with the PW, but not sure it'd be worth your while unless it was in the middle of the venue.

Kind of off topic, but how is the D3 at 6400 ISO? >.>;;; That sounds kind of attractive, an extra two stops for me... would be huge. Not a deal breaker, I do fine at 1600, but never know!

Shame you're not in TX, Robert, I'd lend you my Quantum. That is one piece of gear that I that I can honestly say was worthwhile purchase.

Hey Zansho,

The D3 is pretty amazing at high ISO performance and so is the new D700. Dave (tetrode) shoots with a D3 so he can give you first hand experience but I know many D3 owners and see all the images posted in Nikon Cafe. Incredible performance, for sure.

Regarding the Quantum... Do you use the Q-Flash on Camera? It sure seems like it's a massive flash to have on camera. I'd love to try one but haven't been able to justify the expense of the flash and battery needed.

TMR Design wrote in post #6206927
Hey Zansho,

The D3 is pretty amazing at high ISO performance and so is the new D700. Dave (tetrode) shoots with a D3 so he can give you first hand experience but I know many D3 owners and see all the images posted in Nikon Cafe. Incredible performance, for sure.

Regarding the Quantum... Do you use the Q-Flash on Camera? It sure seems like it's a massive flash to have on camera. I'd love to try one but haven't been able to justify the expense of the flash and battery needed.

I've used off camera, on camera, on a bracket, and tucked away pointing at some ceiling corner. It behaves a lot like a Norman 200B in terms of lighting (you can use the silver reflector for specular highlight effects in the eyes), and there are quite a few accessories for it. Sometimes if I'm outdoors, I'll even shoot it bare bulb - as long as I'm within a good distance from my subject, of course. The 580 EXII is on my backup camera, but with a bounce card. Both cameras have a bracket, not only for the flash, but for the pocketwizard use. I put on a cold shoe on there, stick the PW on the shoe, and plug it in to control whatever off camera lighting I might be using.

Good advise already given.
I'd definately gel the flash to match ambient. 1/2 CTO if you want a (very) warm BG, full CTO if you want a warm BG.

If you haven't yet, this site is a must-read.

René Damkot wrote in post #6209306
Good advise already given.
I'd definately gel the flash to match ambient. 1/2 CTO if you want a (very) warm BG, full CTO if you want a warm BG.

If you haven't yet, this site is a must-read.

Thanks René.

I've been reading as much as I can to learn techniques that will help me in this type of venue. I don't have time to read this site before my shoot but I'll be sure to give it a read afterwards. There's only so much time in a day.

Robert, you should check out Rick DeLorme on Monte Zucker forum. Here is the link

http://forum.montezuck​er.com/index.php?act=S​T&f=11&t=7656&

Thanks Bobby. I'm going to have to check that forum out. I'm a big fan of Monte Zucker. Not to go off topic again but since Monte is not with us, is that forum just another forum but with his name on it? I'm sure there are great and talented people there but is it any different from other lighting forums?

Hello all,

Well, I shot the event last night and it went very well. The Nikon CLS system worked great and exactly as planned.

First off, even at high ISO and an f/1.4 lens it wasn't possible to get good results with available light so I know that having flash or strobes was the answer.
There was a balcony in the ballroom that went all the way around the room and I had access to it so I was able to place lightstands with SB-800's pointed up at the rounded ceiling, producing as much light as I needed to light the room fairly well, but there were nooks and crannies in the room and tables tucked in to corners that were not lit as well. I had an SB-800 on camera in TTL mode and was adjusting power up or down as I needed.
All in all, exposure was never a problem. I had the Nikon diffuser dome and a DIY Flip-It type device that also worked well, for the most part.

This was the first event of this type that I've shot so I consider it a success and the client is extremely happy, but I want to improve my technique and learn from my mistakes.

I did have a few issues and now some questions about shooting with flash indoors.

The first problem I saw in some of my images were red eye. I know I can easily remove the red eye in Capture NX but I'd rather not have to do that. My understanding of red eye is that it has to do with the flash being too close to the lens. Is that correct? Is this the reason (or one reason) to use a flash bracket? Does raising the flash up away from the lens reduce or eliminate red eye?

The other problem was that when my subjects were close to walls I was of course getting shadows on the walls behind the subject. When I used the flip-it it did soften the shadows a bit but was still not to my liking. Even with the softest light coming from the flash I would think that shadows will still be there i varying degrees.

So.. is this why some suggested using strobes and either no on camera flash or using the on camera flash only as fill and not as the main source of illumination? If so, I'm not sure I understand that because even if the light bounced from the ceiling with strobes is powerful it is coming from above the subjects and even with a little fill it would seem that the faces do not have a real presence and seem somewhat lifeless without a direct main light source.

I plan on doing quite a bit of research and reading the suggested sites but I thought I would just pose these questions to get some input.

TMR Design wrote in post #6214768
Hello all,

Well, I shot the event last night and it went very well. The Nikon CLS system worked great and exactly as planned.

First off, even at high ISO and an f/1.4 lens it wasn't possible to get good results with available light so I know that having flash or strobes was the answer.
There was a balcony in the ballroom that went all the way around the room and I had access to it so I was able to place lightstands with SB-800's pointed up at the rounded ceiling, producing as much light as I needed to light the room fairly well, but there were nooks and crannies in the room and tables tucked in to corners that were not lit as well. I had an SB-800 on camera in TTL mode and was adjusting power up or down as I needed.
All in all, exposure was never a problem. I had the Nikon diffuser dome and a DIY Flip-It type device that also worked well, for the most part.

This was the first event of this type that I've shot so I consider it a success and the client is extremely happy, but I want to improve my technique and learn from my mistakes.

I did have a few issues and now some questions about shooting with flash indoors.

The first problem I saw in some of my images were red eye. I know I can easily remove the red eye in Capture NX but I'd rather not have to do that. My understanding of red eye is that it has to do with the flash being too close to the lens. Is that correct? Is this the reason (or one reason) to use a flash bracket? Does raising the flash up away from the lens reduce or eliminate red eye?

The other problem was that when my subjects were close to walls I was of course getting shadows on the walls behind the subject. When I used the flip-it it did soften the shadows a bit but was still not to my liking. Even with the softest light coming from the flash I would think that shadows will still be there i varying degrees.

So.. is this why some suggested using strobes and either no on camera flash or using the on camera flash only as fill and not as the main source of illumination? If so, I'm not sure I understand that because even if the light bounced from the ceiling with strobes is powerful it is coming from above the subjects and even with a little fill it would seem that the faces do not have a real presence and seem somewhat lifeless without a direct main light source.

I plan on doing quite a bit of research and reading the suggested sites but I thought I would just pose these questions to get some input.

Realistically, you'll won't be able to light a set or a room with monolights in a way which will give you absolute freedom to work in any angle or position you choose. Having a flash on-camera is the best way to ensure your subjects are well-lit with visible catchlights in such a high-pressure, high-volume shoot.

The best way to capture faces without simply blasting everything with flat light is to set up monoblocs to create modelling and shape, whilst using an on-camera flash (ideally with a small softbox to prevent red-eye) to provide slight fill and create catchlights, thereby allowing you to work freely. If you don't want to use monolights then use a bracket to get your flash as high-up and far off the lens axis as possible and add a decent-sized portable softbox to soften the facial-shadows. As long as you avoid shooting people right up against walls and balance with the ambient lighting, this should solve most of your background-shadow problems - the cut in flash-output that comes with using a softbox shouldn't bother you as you'll likely be shooting at high ISOs to retain the ambient lighting anyway.

Hi Hermes,

Thanks for the reply but in this type of shoot there are no choices or posing. The guests are where they are and that is how they must captured. Monolights or off camera flashes do bring up the ambient room light level but from what you're saying I gather that the best I can do is to reduce and soften shadows on the walls, but not eliminate them.

My subject were not up against the walls and at times they were as much as 6 to 8 feet from the wall, and obviously when they were further away I did get softer shadows but sometimes they were standing 1 or 2 feet from the wall or chatting with a group in a corner.

Reducing output with a softbox won't affect me much. I was never at a loss for firepower and was shooting comfortably at ISO800, never boosting FEC by more than +2/3 stop and using an 85mm f/1.4 lens between f/1.4 and f/4.

Regarding the red eye... am I correct in my conclusion about also getting the flash up higher away from the lens?

TMR Design wrote in post #6214768
Hello all,

Well, I shot the event last night and it went very well.
...

Congratulations, Robert. Glad to hear you survived the ordeal. Samples?

Dave F.

tetrode wrote in post #6215045
Congratulations, Robert. Glad to hear you survived the ordeal. Samples?

Dave F.

No samples yet Dave. I have 1300 images to sort though first. It was a long night. Fortunately the client was ecstatic and that was evident by the very nice tip I received.