More Night Flash Football

Ok new night some better results but a lot that looked infocus in camera are still out of focus.

I used ISO 800 f/4 1/200 with flash set on ETTL with +1 2/3 FEC

Is the OOF all me or am I reaching the limits of me cameras AF?

Of if it is me what could I to get it to focus better at night?

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The only one that isn't OOF is the third...

Matt,

I am thinking you are at the limit for focusing using the XTI (the camera just needs more ambient light for accurate focusing).

There is still quite a bit of motion blur on some of the photos which would indicate your flash power is not high enough above ambient for this field. Try using a slightly lower ISO setting for this field to see if that is better at freezing the action.

Hopefully Dennis will chime in on this thread and give some advice.....

well this was an away game so not the usual field, next week, I will try using a lower iso and also maybe a bit more FEC on the flash

mestes wrote in post #6253437
well this was an away game so not the usual field, next week, I will try using a lower iso and also maybe a bit more FEC on the flash

Matt Estes - You're already at + 1 2/3 FEC so I can't imagine your flash needs more output. FWIW, I've never had to go that high when I've shot in ETTL. Lowering your ISO might get your flash further above ambient, but I'm skeptical that this will solve the issues here.

You might be at the limits of your camera's AF, but like I've said before, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the hardware. I shot night HS football for an entire season with an XT and a Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, so you ought to be able to do better than this. What AF scheme are you using? I'd also consider shooting your flash in manual as ETTL isn't the most reliable when it comes to getting the flash levels correct. It may be under-powering your flash which would limit the ability of the flash to freeze the action.

Have you shot day football with good results? Have you tried shooting ambient light (no flash)? When images are consistently OOF using a rig that otherwise produces acceptable results, it's almost always some sort of operator error. No offense intended.

I'd put the camera in single center point AF (evaluative metering) and AI Servo. Take it off high speed burst and put in in One Shot.

Also, I'm not sure what this means (from your EXIF):

Is that something that is set in the camera or on the flash? I've never seen it before.

Also, the settings we're discussing here should work at any field, so returning home won't, unfortunately, be the panacea you're hoping for.

Try this. Go into a room after dark with your camera set up just like you have used it to take night football shots. Try to photograph moving things (like dogs, cats, people). Turn on enough light to allow you to aim through the viewfinder. How does this work?

Night football is pretty challenging so don't despair. Keep practicising.

I started shooting HS football with the orginal Digital Rebel and a 580EX flash. It's safe to say that it's not your gear. I would get the shutter speed above 1/200, try to get it to at least 1/400 and also open up to f/2.8

Mike R wrote in post #6253684
I started shooting HS football with the orginal Digital Rebel and a 580EX flash. It's safe to say that it's not your gear. I would get the shutter speed above 1/200, try to get it to at least 1/400 and also open up to f/2.8

Mike,

Sorry, but getting his shutter speed above 1/200s will not sync with the flash, unless Matt puts the flash in HSS which is a major no-no.

The flash duration, not the shutter speed, is what should be stopping the action here.

He doesn't have a shutter speed issue - he has either an AF issue or a flash intensity issue.

I'm glad to see your trying to use the flash. That is my next step until I can get a 40D. Why did you keep the ISo at 800 instead of going to 1600? Is it that the XTi can't sync with even an external flash at higher that 1/200?

Dennis

I always use the Center AF Point

Yes I have shot day with good results

Here are two from the sophmore level game.

I agree its got to be op error

which part of

are you not used to seeing? I have not changed or set anything and I see

jpsamora wrote in post #6253840
I'm glad to see your trying to use the flash. That is my next step until I can get a 40D. Why did you keep the ISo at 800 instead of going to 1600? Is it that the XTi can't sync with even an external flash at higher that 1/200?

yes the XTi's max flash sync is 1/200

jpsamora wrote in post #6253840
I'm glad to see your trying to use the flash. That is my next step until I can get a 40D. Why did you keep the ISo at 800 instead of going to 1600? Is it that the XTi can't sync with even an external flash at higher that 1/200?

The XTi cannot sync with ANY flash/strobe faster than 1/200s.

There is no need to up the ISO to 1600. In fact, that is exactly the opposite of what needs to happen here. Increasing the ISO will let even more light into the camera which will decrease the difference between flash power and ambient which will make the situation worse.

Might I suggest viewing the third episode of the podcast listed in my signature? It addresses indoor artificial light, but the theory is the same.

One of these games I'm gonna shoot an entire quarter at ISO400, 1/125s and f/2.8 with flash iin Manual, just to show naysayers that it's the FLASH that matters. I can guarantee my results will be more than acceptable.

ISO, aperture and shutter speed only control the exposure for ambient. The duration of the flash is what stops action in situations like this - as long as you keep the flash at least 2 stops above the ambient light level.

There are a million threads on this topic, including this oldie but goodie (started last year at this time):

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=375847

The way I do it is to monitor the histogram. A properly-exposed night football shot will have a histogram with data covering the left half and maybe a little on the right half. Lotsa shadows and midrange stuff and only a little highlights - especially if the teams are wearing dark jerseys.

I'm not used to seeing the part about red-eye reduction. I don't know what that means, or even if that's always there. Like I said, I don't remember ever seeing that on any of my shots.

You might have trouble stopping fan blades - they move pretty fast. You actually don't even need anything moving - I was just making the point that the settings for the camera aren't that important when it comes to stopping action using flash for sports.

so in a poor lit room or anywhere as long as I have the flash above ambient it should be able to stop motion.

so in my room with only hall light if I could take a properly exposed picture thats in focus then I did it correctly.

mestes wrote in post #6254161
so in a poor lit room or anywhere as long as I have the flash above ambient it should be able to stop motion.

so in my room with only hall light if I could take a properly exposed picture thats in focus then I did it correctly.

Give it a try and see what happens.

Think of being in a totally dark room with a jumping gnome. While you're trying not to get hit by him as he jumps around, you remember you have your camera and flash with you, but you also recall your camera's shutter is stuck in the open position. You decide to fire off a few shots anyway, just for grins. Since the only light in the room comes from your flash, and the only time the gnome is illuminated is while the flash is "on", you get a nice series of shots of the gnome frozen in mid-air. This is despite the fact that your shutter is frozen open.

The duration of the flash freezes the gnome and the amount of light coming from the flash establishes the exposure. In ETTL, as long as your flash is one stop above ambient (in this case, there is no ambient) ETTL works OK to calculate the appropriate exposure flash level.

Make sense?

so in manual mode the lowest the power gets is 1/128 is that the setting you referred to in my other topic saying that power 1/128 is equal to 1/800 shutter speed?

sorry long time to respond had to reformat my PC