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Thread started 08 Sep 2008 (Monday) 06:53
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izzy35
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Sep 08, 2008 06:53 |  #1

Ok so i find that this is OFTEN my problem and I cannot seem to fix it..

#1--Eyes and usually the pics as a whole, are ALWAYS soft...like in every picture i take...I ALWAYS focus on eyes, but can never seem to get it right..Any advice would be great. What am i doing wrong??

#2--I took a bunch of these shots and they looked good on the LCD, but once i bring'em up on the PC, they are all washed out and look very bluish..Any help and editing (with explanations:)) would be sooooooo very much appreciated..I have about 50 more just like this one and would love to get them looking better...


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KarlosDaJackal
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Sep 08, 2008 07:09 |  #2

Focus:
How long to do wait between focusing and taking the shot? People both the subject and you can move back and forward a lot during that time even if it is only a second.

Never focus recompose, you a guaranteed a bad shot, use the other focus points.

It looks like in that sample you got the focus on his nose, so I'm gonna guess you focus re-composed, or tensed up your shoulders and moved the camera back a little before you took the shot.

Colours:
The white balance is completely off and very cool. You can change that afterwards easily if you took this as a RAW. If its JPEG it will be harder but still possible, but I'll let someone else give the tutorial on that.

Much better to get it right at the start. Auto White Balance can get it wrong a bunch of times, also sometimes the "right" White Balance is actually not what you'd want for a scene anyway.

If you are sticking in an environment like that pool, take a few pictures with different white balance settings. Find the one that works and leave your camera on that until you move to somewhere with different lighting. Then repeat your test shots, until you have a reasonable White Balance.

Alternatively, leave it on auto and shot in RAW. When you open the picture in DPP if it looks off, you can pick a different white balance for the shot. If its still off click the ink dropper and click on something near white in the image, and it will automatically set the "correct" level. Then you can move the slider more to the right to make it a little warmer, or more to the left to make it a little cooler.


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wem
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Sep 08, 2008 07:22 |  #3

izzy35 wrote in post #6263841 (external link)
Ok so i find that this is OFTEN my problem and I cannot seem to fix it..

#1--Eyes and usually the pics as a whole, are ALWAYS soft...like in every picture i take...I ALWAYS focus on eyes, but can never seem to get it right..Any advice would be great. What am i doing wrong??

#2--I took a bunch of these shots and they looked good on the LCD, but once i bring'em up on the PC, they are all washed out and look very bluish..Any help and editing (with explanations:)) would be sooooooo very much appreciated..I have about 50 more just like this one and would love to get them looking better...

I had the same problem and thought it was due to the lens. However, it was a focus-recompose issue as suggested above. Three solutions helped me:

  • Use another AF point that is closer to your subject (so not always the center one)
  • Leave it 'zoomed out' a bit and frame afterwards, so the subject remains on the AF point
  • Manual focus
Also: look into the picture style setting (look at the sharpness) and the shutter speed. I hope I helped you!

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michillebaker
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Sep 08, 2008 08:38 |  #4

Some things i noticed which if fixed may help solve your problem.

1st - I noticed that you shot this is aperiture priority which since you did not use flash and you set your aperature to 5.6 it caused the shutter speed to set at 1/250 sec which caused the picture to underexpose.

2nd - Try using flash next time exspecially indoors. It will not only help you compisate for the underexposed picture's but it will also help with focusing.

3rd - Indoors i tend to always set my camera's settings to Manual so I control everything becuase sometimes aperiture priority doesn't always cut it.


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neumanns
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Sep 08, 2008 08:46 |  #5

Actually I don't think the focus is that far off. As said above the white balance is wacky, But cameras can only guess at what it is looking at...Nothing wrong with the camera (or you) it just guessed wrong

The flatness is mostly associated with a low contrast shot and can also be adjusted in post processing.

Here's what I did ( All in DPP)

I brought the blue and green channel down.
I upped the contrast slightly.
Boosted the saturation just a 'tiny' bit.
Adjusted the luminance
Sharpened slightly...

If this is more what you had in mind you can search here on how to do this with the software that came with your camera.


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kirkt
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Sep 08, 2008 08:59 |  #6

@izzy35: Here is an attempt at editing, knowing, of course, that I do not have any idea what the colors are actually like in this scene. The most important color, I would think, would be the skin tone and I am guessing at that as well. If you shoot a bunch of these images, it is probably best to shoot a gray card under these exact lighting conditions and then use that image as your custom WB. A little fill flash will also help separate the subject from the background and get a sharper image. It will also allow you to be a little more flexible with your aperture, so you don;t have to open it all the way up and risk a shallow DoF - it may also help with AF if your flash has an AF assist beam.

Take my edit with a grain of salt. I cropped the orange cone out of the right if the image, and cloned out the other cone that was directly behind the subject and distracting from the subject. I suppose you could also clone out the arm in the left of the image, but it is clear that it belongs to someone making sure the subject is steady and not going to fall out of the floatie ring, so I have no problem with its presence.

I did a quick color correction with curves, clicking with the gray dropper at various places within the image that I guessed were about neutral - I think I settled on the grout in the tile. I played with color saturation a little, in Lab, and then I then did a series of warming and cooling filters and masks of each to cool the water and warm the subject, creating some complementary colors between the two and watching that the skin tones stayed relatively "okay" - here that meant that the C channel stayed relatively low and the M and Y channels were about equal - again, I am totally guessing - a WB card in the exact lighting conditions will really go a long way to obviating the need for guessing. Some of the stronger colors get whacked out I am sure, like the shirt, etc., but I just don;t know what it is supposed to look like, other than having seen similar shirts at my pool, etc.

If you have shot a bunch under similar conditions, you may find a solution that you can make into an action and batch process.

have fun!

Kirk


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izzy35
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Sep 09, 2008 08:21 |  #7

KarlosDaJackal wrote in post #6263901 (external link)
Focus:
Never focus recompose, you a guaranteed a bad shot, use the other focus points.

point taken..i probably do this a MILLION TIMES!!:oops:

KarlosDaJackal wrote in post #6263901 (external link)
If its still off click the ink dropper and click on something near white in the image, and it will automatically set the "correct" level. Then you can move the slider more to the right to make it a little warmer, or more to the left to make it a little cooler

i've messed around with DPP and basic PS and i NEVER could figure out the dropper!!! LOL!!! i am in heaven now!! thanks a bunch:D...is the idea to ALWAYS click in white in order to get the correct white balance??

michillebaker wrote in post #6264229 (external link)
2nd - Try using flash next time exspecially indoors. It will not only help you compisate for the underexposed picture's but it will also help with focusing.

ALL of these pool shots are on a bright sunny day, outdoors....it was about 5pm so the pool was now in shade...:(

neumanns wrote in post #6264273 (external link)
Here's what I did ( All in DPP)

I brought the blue and green channel down.
I upped the contrast slightly.
Boosted the saturation just a 'tiny' bit.
Adjusted the luminance
Sharpened slightly...

If this is more what you had in mind you can search here on how to do this with the software that came with your camera.

i have DPP so it was good to be able to follow ure steps...THANKS!!!!

kirkt wrote in post #6264342 (external link)
If you shoot a bunch of these images, it is probably best to shoot a gray card under these exact lighting conditions and then use that image as your custom WB.

i am soooooo novice so trying to understand how to do this and when and when not to use it...I would also like to attempt the "hand" option, as i don't have a gray card yet...:oops:

kirkt wrote in post #6264342 (external link)
Take my edit with a grain of salt. I cropped the orange cone out of the right if the image, and cloned out the other cone that was directly behind the subject and distracting from the subject.

is there a simple way to doing this?? it always seems simple when others do it but i can't figure it out to save my life!! LOL!!!

kirkt wrote in post #6264342 (external link)
I did a quick color correction with curves, clicking with the gray dropper at various places within the image that I guessed were about neutral - I think I settled on the grout in the tile.

so i'm learning that the dropper is for WB?? is there a rule or law, where to usually click to get the right level or is it ure preference??


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kirkt
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Sep 09, 2008 08:53 |  #8

The "hand" option is really more of a technique to set exposure - take a picture of your hand and use it to set WB and you will quickly see that it is not really a viable option most of the time. Do yourself a favor and pick up a gray card - even if you start with a simple cardboard one from your local camera shop, it is better than nothing. The idea is to place the card in the spot where you intend to shoot, trying to position the card so there is no glare reflecting off of the card into the camera lens. Take a picture of the card, filling the majority of the frame with the card and properly exposed (you can check the histogram on the display of your camera to check this). Once you are satisfied with your image, you can use this image of the gray card to give the camera the data it needs to set the WB off of this image. If your lighting conditions change, you will need to shoot another gray card image. If you do not know how to do this... read the manual that came with your camera to see if it possible and how to do it. I know it sounds cliche, but you can learn a lot from the manual!

The camera's preset WB settings are okay, but often times if there is more complex light, the presets will not be able to accommodate that condition and will introduce casts, etc. Shooting RAW, among other things, permits you to set the WB after the fact, once you have downloaded your images to the computer - then you can go to town with the WB eyedropper, etc. However, you can always make this adjustment on any image within Photoshop, etc. using the gray eyedropper (in the Curves and Levels adjustments). The idea is not to select something that is bright white, because that will often be overexposed and lack meaningful data - you want to select something that is light gray - neutral and not blown out. So, if you can find something in an image that you think is pretty neutral, you can use it to balance your image. Using a gray card, either before the shot or included in the actual shot, will give you a known reference to click on. Once that WB is set (beforehand) or clicked on (in post processing) you can typically apply that WB correction to all of the images shot under similar conditions (i.e., "batch" process the WB adjustment for the whole set of images at once). Of course, you can always adjust the "corrected" version to suit your artistic preference or your memory of the image as you perceived it when you shot it (i.e., clicking on the grout in the tile in your original image may have given the "correct" WB, but I thought it would look nicer to warm the image a little to give more pleasing, although not necessarily "accurate" skin tones in the face). Sometimes you are concentrating so much on taking the picture instead of making the image and you don't have the time to take a picture of a gray card or twiddle a dial or change a menu setting - that's where knowing how to tweak things in post becomes important. You always want to try to make the best image possible in the camera, but, speaking for myself, that is a proposition I am constantly trying to achieve but have not yet consistently attained. In an ideal world, post-processing would be to make your great images look stellar, but for the rest of us, we need all the tricks we can get.

As far as cloning goes - just practice with a soft-edged brush and learn to adjust the size of your brush as you clone - in Photoshop this is done with the left (increase) and right (decrease) square bracket keys (e.g., [and] ). It pays to develop the habit of cloning onto a new layer so that you leave the original image undisturbed. That is, make a new layer directly above the layer you intend to clone in, make that new layer active, then do you cloning on that layer. You will have much more flexibility in the edit if you do it this way. Cloning can be simple or very time-consuming and arduous depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Have fun and practice on this image - this image contains a lot of fun things to challenge your developing skills (WB, contrast/curves and cloning) so have at it and se what you get.

Good luck - have fun!

Kirk


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RexC
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Sep 09, 2008 09:49 |  #9

For what it's worth, I always focus & recompose. I use the center focus point: more sensitive with fast lenses and it's in the middle, so I know where the focus will be at. In situations where you need to be fast, focus/recompose is faster than choosing focus spot; I think that's how most people shoot.

As neumann's said, I think the focus is correct, it's just not good lighting, so it looks flat.

As for underexposure, I disagree with michillebaker: Av will expose properly; by properly, I mean what the meter and metering mode thinks is right: you have a bright reflection just left of subject, which will fool the meter into thinking the scene is bright. Only way to fix this is put in positive exposure compensation or fix it on your PC.




  
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KarlosDaJackal
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Sep 09, 2008 09:53 |  #10

RexC wrote in post #6272022 (external link)
For what it's worth, I always focus & recompose. I use the center focus point: more sensitive with fast lenses and it's in the middle, so I know where the focus will be at. In situations where you need to be fast, focus/recompose is faster than choosing focus spot; I think that's how most people shoot.

As neumann's said, I think the focus is correct, it's just not good lighting, so it looks flat.

Repeat, Focus recompose is bad!

Read here for more http://visual-vacations.com …focus-recompose_sucks.htm (external link)

Now if you find that you can't change focus points quick enough look at the customer functions on your camera that let you use the cross keys to pick a focus point, its quicker than changing shutter or aperture and you get a better picture at the end of it.


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polarbare
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Sep 09, 2008 12:47 |  #11

I'm with Rex - never had an issue. It will have lots to do with the lens your using however, and what you're shooting.


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KarlosDaJackal
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Sep 09, 2008 13:09 |  #12

polarbare wrote in post #6273142 (external link)
I'm with Rex - never had an issue. It will have lots to do with the lens your using however, and what you're shooting.

Rex said he never had an issue, but he also says the focus looks fine to him :p If the aim was to focus on the tip of the nose and have soft eyes, I guess its fine :lol: the only reason its usable is the f/5.6 gave just enough DOF to grab the bottom edge of the eyes, if it was f/4 or less they would be totally soft.

Sure the faster the lens, the less DOF you have and the more accurate you will have to be, try focus recompose at f/2.8 or less. That link explains it in a nice scientific measurable way. If you feel you don't have an issue, good for you. But its still bad advise to tell other to do it, when its proven to cause issues.

This is one of the main reasons why our SLRs have multiple focus points, and simple point and shoot cameras have usually only one in the center. Those point and shoot camera can get a great DOF due to their smaller sensors anyway so its not such an issue with them.

Personally I'm finding manual focus is the way to go for me as I often don't like the position of the 9 points on the 400d for the shots I like to take. That works for me, but not everybody. I'd still advised people to use AF and the other points as thats sound advice with a sound basis. Focus recompose is know to have destroyed many images, so i'll always advise against it.


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Sep 09, 2008 14:28 |  #13

There are different thoughts on focus and recomposing. I have heard some professionals do it all of the time and I have seen a pro at a wedding do this.A lot of it has to do with the aperature that you camera is set on.
From my personal experiences, I feel i get a lot more keepers when I am not recomposing. I move the focus point closest to my point of focus. I just use a single focus point too.


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