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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 16 Sep 2008 (Tuesday) 17:03
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shadows - what did I do wrong?

 
cdnshutterbug
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Sep 16, 2008 17:03 |  #1

I positioned my subject with the sun behind me. She has a shadow on her neck, any thoughts on what I did wrong? How can I prevent this from happening.
I know it is a terrible photo, the image is blown out ( I forgot to set the ev on flash to -1) Newbie to flash.:oops:


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FlyingPhotog
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Sep 16, 2008 17:04 |  #2

The simplest thing would have been to have a reflector to camera left. A little bounced light would have softened the shadows.

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tim
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Sep 16, 2008 17:09 |  #3

This is a tough situation. The ideal way would be to put her in the shade. I had the same situation last weekend, check out the beach photo (external link) on this blog entry, which would've looked the same as your photo if I hadn't done something. My solution was an off-camera flash, with a white shoot-thru umbrella to camera left, held by an assistant. This way I filled the shadows without putting light on the part that was already bright.

Another way might've been to shoot ISO100, F16, 1/250th, that might've made the sun look less bright, then use the flash to light the person. It would've been very flat lighting though.

Reflectors blind people, I don't use them in the sun.


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Wilt
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Sep 16, 2008 17:38 |  #4

The technique that I would have used in bright sunlight would have been to put the sun BEHIND her so her face is shaded, then use an off-camera flash at an angle to her as a fill light (more subdued than the ambient light) with the fundamental exposure for the background area, so it looks more natural than if her shaded face was brighter.

If sun was high overhead, so that putting her face in shade was difficult, I would try to place her in a shaded area.

Sun on the face, like your shot, seldom works well. I have had an assistant, or even a bystander, hold a translucent panel overhead and put the subject under that!


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tim
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Sep 16, 2008 17:54 |  #5

Wilt, if you make your own shade doesn't the background blow out? Plus the bystander/assistant needs to be tall and have long arms so they're not in the shot!


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Titus213
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Sep 16, 2008 17:55 |  #6

The neck shadow doesn't bother me as much as the darkness around the eyes. Turn around, use fill flash to bring her up to the background.

The 5-in-1 oval reflector works well here with the scrim only, held overhead if necessary. It's 45x60 and can be held up on end easily.


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Sep 16, 2008 17:59 |  #7

tim wrote in post #6319691 (external link)
Wilt, if you make your own shade doesn't the background blow out? Plus the bystander/assistant needs to be tall and have long arms so they're not in the shot!

I don't care about the background (all the time)! In some cases, the background is busy, and even unattractive, and blurring it out beyond recognition or even blowing it out into a high key background is desirable!

After all, there are many situations which occur normally, where someone is in shade and strong sun is nearby! Since it occurs naturally, mimicing that situation looks natural in photographs.

Tight framing, and the assistant standing on a chair both help to keep them out of the photo!


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cdnshutterbug
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Sep 16, 2008 18:12 |  #8

I will try it again with light behind her, as well as in shade & see if I can eliminate the shadow. For this photo I used the lightsphere (clear) which was aimed at my subject, whether that made a difference or not I don't know. As for the eyes, I agree. She has very dark eyes and it was very difficult.




  
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Jim ­ M
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Sep 16, 2008 18:12 |  #9

I'm not sure I get the part about setting the flash ev to -1. According to the EXIF information on the picture, it was shot in Aperture Priority at f/4.0 at 1/4,000 sec. No flash was fired according to the EXIF. Granted, if it was a studio flash or some such, the EXIF wouldn't have shown it.

So, at 1/4,000 second you would have to set a Canon flash on High Speed Sync or the shutter will reveal only a tiny sliver of flash effect on the picture. Perhaps when the camera is in Aperture Priority, it knows this and won't fire the flash if it couldn't possibly work. I don't know.

Also, when shooting Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority (Tv) with the flash set to ETTL, the camera and flash assume you are using the flash for fill and will adjust accordingly.




  
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tim
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Sep 16, 2008 18:24 |  #10

At 1/4000 even in HSS that's not much opportunity to put flash on the subject. Keep the shutter below 1/250th if possible.

Wilt wrote in post #6319721 (external link)
I don't care about the background (all the time)! In some cases, the background is busy, and even unattractive, and blurring it out beyond recognition or even blowing it out into a high key background is desirable!

After all, there are many situations which occur normally, where someone is in shade and strong sun is nearby! Since it occurs naturally, mimicing that situation looks natural in photographs.!

I like my way better, you can see subject and background, plus it's easier :)


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Sep 16, 2008 18:33 |  #11

Tim, I agree that putting her in the shade is a better solution...but given that we, as hired pros, do not always GET the ideal, the 'make do by making your shade' is a reasonable alternative to backlighting and using fill, especially when the sun is too high to permit any backlight, or when the use of backlight puts a suboptimal background into the shot. The mark of the real pro...the ability to get the shot in a very wide array of diverse circumstances!


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Jim ­ M
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Sep 16, 2008 18:46 |  #12

tim wrote in post #6319866 (external link)
At 1/4000 even in HSS that's not much opportunity to put flash on the subject. Keep the shutter below 1/250th if possible.

I couldn't agree more.

I also noticed ISO was at 400. Getting that down to 100 would allow 1/1000 sec at f/4, but it would still be HSS. So it's a toss up between shallow depth of field or high speed sync. It would take f/8 to get to 1/250 and I'm not sure what the sync speed is on the OP's camera. It may have to go to 1/200.




  
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tim
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Sep 16, 2008 19:54 |  #13

Wilt wrote in post #6319921 (external link)
Tim, I agree that putting her in the shade is a better solution...but given that we, as hired pros, do not always GET the ideal, the 'make do by making your shade' is a reasonable alternative to backlighting and using fill, especially when the sun is too high to permit any backlight, or when the use of backlight puts a suboptimal background into the shot. The mark of the real pro...the ability to get the shot in a very wide array of diverse circumstances!

Not that solution, the one of adding light with a diffused off camera flash.


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Sep 16, 2008 20:14 |  #14

Titus213 wrote in post #6319700 (external link)
The neck shadow doesn't bother me as much as the darkness around the eyes. Turn around, use fill flash to bring her up to the background.

The 5-in-1 oval reflector works well here with the scrim only, held overhead if necessary. It's 45x60 and can be held up on end easily.

Dave, what reflector are you talking about? I need to get a 5-1 set.


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Wilt
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Sep 16, 2008 20:23 |  #15

tim wrote in post #6320353 (external link)
Not that solution, the one of adding light with a diffused off camera flash.

Another fine technique.

My same answer applies...the more methods you know, that handle different lighting situations, the more versatile you are as a pro.


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shadows - what did I do wrong?
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