The 5D Mk II - a Nikon shooter's perspective

nw85887 wrote in post #6341181
Well said.

The "Magic Bullet" syndrome afflicts many.



Wrong! I strive for tacos and street cred.

tacos? and steet cred? wouldnt hot dogs and street cred go batter? :P

great post.

Honestly I've started my own forum because I feel this place is too equipment based... I still come here for equipment discussion/info, but other wise not so much....

But I also hear you on a few things. Nikon will make a 24.4mp camera. Sony just released the sensor in their FF offering so you know Nikon will to (D3x?). Also, some time ago an exif leaked that they had something with that many MP anyway. So that's coming. Whether or not they also drop it in a D700 styled body, who knows, but I wouldn't doubt it as they seem to be doing very well the the D3 AND D700 right now.

As for the next 1 series, I've also felt the 2 lines will merge at some point. But the next versions do seem like a logical time to do it. Why? Because digic 4 finally supports pixel binning. Granted they'll have to iron it out on the level of the sensor, but once they do, you'll be able to have a ~30mp FF camera as well as a ~15mp FF mode that runs at twice the speed in terms of FPS. Also, if they're really smart they'll keep a 1.3/1.6 crop option on it, so you can either use sRAW for a half resolution file at 2x the speed, OR use the crop mode for half the resolution at 2x the speed. Think of how awesome that would be... I'd bet 30mp @ 5fps with 15mp @ 10fps in the sRAW/cropped mode. That'd be an awesome camera, and if it all worked with crazy high ISOs think of the possibilities it would open up. Also, they'll sort out pixel binning so the sRAW mode will offer a stop or two better high ISO performance (since 30mp won't be ridiculously awesome, just "very good").

$.02

GO OUT AND SHOOT SOMETHING!

radiohead wrote in post #6341040
Now the dust has settled, this Nikon shooter (and ex-5D shooter for 2 years) has looked at what you're about to get.

Firstly what I think Canon didn't do - the Af, the AF and the AF. That, and the mirror blackout/shutter lag are the 2 things that jump out at me. Puzzling, but I think I might have worked out what Canon are doing. More on that later.

Secondly, what I think Canon did well to do - the 21MP sensor with Digic IV could be a cracker. The 1080P video. As a wedding shooter I haven't figured out how I'd use this mid-shoot, but smarter and better photographers than me will. No doubt we'll see this on the next batch of Nikons as well. The small form factor is a boon for many. They've addressed issues like the poor LCD screen. Refreshed the overall feel no doubt, updated the menu system and it looks like the VF is a better one (seems whiter from what I've read). Overall I think it's going to be a very solid addition to the Canon shooter's arsenal.

I think Canon will release a new 1D IV and that it's going to be FF with a 1.3x crop mode. I also think it might be around 14-16MP and maintain the speed of the current. If it's priced at £3k at a stroke it removes the AF, dual-card slots complaints of some looking at the 5D II.

I think Nikon will release 2 higher res models - a D4 and D800 says, with the same idea as the D3 and D700 but slower, more studio/landscape based models. Say they're £3500 and £2500 and Canon drop the 1Ds III slightly for a £3500-3750 price point.

Essentially we then up with pretty a camera for anyone's needs. From both manufacturers. Both will have superb overall systems.

It's this realisation that brings me to my real point:

The recent introduction of the 5D II and the associated musings, assumptions and general flim-flam surrounding it got me thinking about our obsession with kit.

I’ll declare an interest here – I’m as guilty of being a gear-head as anyone here. I get excited about seeing new technology and marvel at what we shoot with now. Personally I’m lucky to own some fabulous kit and it’s at the level where if I miss a shot it’s down to me and not the camera. This then, is the tipping point. Sometimes I have to catch myself and recall the feeling I get when I get a great shot – the buzz of a new camera is nothing by comparison.

We search for the magic combination of camera and lens, as if that’s the key alone. Sometimes it is and of course we have to have the right (and often best) choice for a given situation. My kit is for weddings and people and would be of little use for a sports tog at a rugby match. But beyond that I’ve come to realise that it was the love of photography and not photographic gear that pulled me in to this world, and it’s that love that pulls me in to this day. Our search should be for the magic combination of the moment, the right light, the emotion, the people and things that matter to us. It should be about documenting the world around us, what we see, what we love.

So, whether you shoot Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony. I don’t care. Is one model slightly better than another in a certain area? I don’t care. It’s THAT we photograph that matters, not WHAT we photograph with. I’ll still watch each new announcement with interest but really, it’s not important to worry about the minutiae. I mean, how lucky are we to be in photography with this lot to choose from!

You have a great community here, full of people spending hours helping each other out. Long may that continue. You're all photographers. We're all striving for the same thing.

thanks for your post radiohead. i also see you at the nikoncafe. hopefully that place and POTN will avoid becoming like dpreview

LiquidSword wrote in post #6341525
All very well said. Too many people are blinded by the capability of latest technology.

Last week, the Original 5D was worshiped. Now with even more improvements, the 5d MkII is catching a bunch of heat??

exactly. i don't really understand that either. oh well.

Excellent posts, just come from DP and it's like life and death over there.

I'm a Canon shooter, last year I was keen on a 1DmkII but decided (for a simular price) to get the 1DmkIIn and 5D, both used for weddings, but as I shoot some sport the 1D is very handy.

My photograpy partner shoots with Nikon and I have to admit having seen the D3 files at high iso, to being more than a touch envious!! It is an amazing tool.

The new 5D mkII will probably be on par, and I will purchase one for my landscape work and low light wedding/portrait work.

Bottom line though, I take pictures, and to be honest all I need is a single focus point, and a good high iso, the rest I can take care of myself. Whistles and bells are great if you are a morris dancer or santa, but they wont capture the moment for you.

two things....

regarding how a wedding photographer could utilize the 1080P video mid shoot. It will depend on how fast you can transition from still photography to video and back again. But i thought of one way. Picture this if you will (no pun intended). You're photographing a wedding... and the moment comes where they kiss... You jump from still to video to capture the moment they lean in... and bam you go back to still to nail a perfect shot of the kiss. Now... when you're creating your DVD of the wedding... you can create a slide show that has video in it and present it just like that.


about the lag shutter blackout.

Huh!?!? I never really noticed that it was that much longer on my 5D than my 20D or 30D to be honest.

elbirth wrote in post #6342191
great post, but I have a couple questions for anyone that may be able to answer

I'm getting the 5D Mark II and will be coming from a 20D. I hear people mention the shutter black out and shutter lag on the 5D... how do those compare to the 20D? Better? Worse? About the same?
As it stands, the shutter lag and black out on the 20D doesn't bother me one bit, and hearing these complaints rising up about the release of the 5D Mark II has me slightly concerned.

check out the numbers here in the tables. looks like the mark II is a bit slower than the 20D. i would explain it as the 5d having a larger mirror, etc...but nikon's d700 is pretty fast
http://www.the-digital-picture.com …igital-Camera-Review.aspx

anyways that isn't the point of the thread

Great read. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

zeva wrote in post #6342266
tacos? and steet cred? wouldnt hot dogs and street cred go batter? :P

Do you mean corn-dog then?? j/k

....

Back to the post by radiohead....

Man, "YOU COMPLETE ME, MAN!!"

Very well stated!

PS - Just kidding about the ...you complete me part...

Surely the limit in terms of FPS will be how quickly the mirror etc can be flipped up and down- if a film camera could do 15FPS then obviously a digital can too - but how much more? Not much I'd guess, so the next generation may need to look at a different mechanism, and possibly EVF - which I wouldn't particularly want to have.

I agree guy, its the photo that matters and the camera second.


Thou side point...you have 2 x D3 and a D700, contradiction?

radiohead wrote in post #6341378
I didn't mean that - I meant that the faster 1D is likely to be FF and there'll still be a slower, higher res one alongside. If Nikon can get a FF to chug along like the D3 then Canon certainly can.

Data is data either it be FF or crop. Pushing 21 million pixels versus 12 million pixels is quite a big difference in terms of moving data off the sensor, to the processor, and finally to the storage card.

I think Canon are relying too heavy on selling the new 5D because of its high MP, and not added some other needed/wanted upgrades

Just a guess but I'd wager it isn't any worse than your 20D; the complaint is that it is exactly the same as the old 5D. They didn't change or improve the responsiveness at all in 3 years.. it is noticeable if you use it next to a 1-series but you will probably feel it is quicker than what you're used to.

Radio, you spoke well of all that is concerned. Everyone should take notice of your lead, and know that it is the photographer not the kit that makes an EXCELLENT photo. My hat is off to you.