Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 13 Nov 2008 (Thursday) 09:22
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Strobe sync @ 1/400: Pushing the limits.

 
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2589
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Nov 13, 2008 09:22 |  #1

Need High-Speed Sync, but don't have the equipment for it? Up to a point, like maybe 1/500 sec., you can fake it!

NOTE: You need an off-camera flash to get the higher shutter speeds, use a sync cord, or tape the pins on some auto flashes.

Shooting V-ball is not all that easy to WB (White Balance). Many of the high school gyms are black holes for lighting; + The lights above are not full spectrum & the light from below which is bounced from the wood floor is biased toward yellow.
And most refs will only allow bounced flash, although some will allow direct flash from the stands in a non-championship match.

So I thought I'd try some tests to see if I could live with the 1/250 sec. sync speed that Canon recommends.

This image was shot against a blank wall to show where the shutter will cut off the flash at higher speeds:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Notice that you can probably get away with 1/400 seconds?

I'm usually shooting with the 85mm f/1.8 lens, which is a bit wide for some angles, so I can afford to crop in, & if I bias the shot toward the top of the frame, I think I can even get away with 1/500 sec as you can see in this image. It's direct flash during warm-up, but bounce flash gives the same result:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


So think about squeezing out a little higher shutter speed when you feel that it will help. I suggest that you run a test with your camera like the first image to see just where your shutter cuts off, too.
(Ignore the overexposure. It's just for illustration.)

FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,156 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3424
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Nov 13, 2008 09:38 |  #2

Just wondering...what would be the reason to up the shutter speed, to simply get rid of the ambient off-balanced light?


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2589
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Nov 13, 2008 09:49 |  #3

to simply get rid of the ambient off-balanced light?

No, to eliminate ghosting from movement at 1/250 sec, which just isn't fast enough to freeze a spikers hand and a volleyball which can move at 100mph.

This shot is at 1/250 sec:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


And this one, is at 1/500 without flash fill.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dermit
Goldmember
1,815 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 172
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Chandler, Arizona
     
Nov 13, 2008 09:55 |  #4

Wilt wrote in post #6678604 (external link)
Just wondering...what would be the reason to up the shutter speed, to simply get rid of the ambient off-balanced light?

There are many instances to try and get higher shutter speeds with flash. The most common for me is on location, outdoors, during daylight. If I want my flash to be a large contributor to the exposure on a subject in full shade but the background is in full sun then a faster shutter will allow me to have a larger aperture which gives me a desired shallow DOF as well as helping out my flash to work less. It's very difficult to get the shutter down to 1/200 in the Arizona sun.. even in shade during the day. And when I often try to underexpose the bright background it only makes matters worse. So this technique PhotosGuy describes could be a viable option, but you really need to know exaclty where your cutoff point is.


5DmkII, 5DmkIII, 5DS R, 15mm, 16-35 f/2.8 II L, 100 Macro f/2.8 L, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, 580EX II, 580EX, 550EX
http://www.pixelcraftp​hoto.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2589
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Nov 13, 2008 09:58 |  #5

It's very difficult to get the shutter down to 1/200 in the Arizona sun.. even in shade during the day.

Good point! I didn't think of that.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dermit
Goldmember
1,815 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 172
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Chandler, Arizona
     
Nov 13, 2008 10:05 |  #6

PhotosGuy wrote in post #6678711 (external link)
Good point! I didn't think of that.

Oh yes. Believe me, I am mainly an on-location portrait photographer and mostly ourdoors. The higher shutter speed I can get with flash the better. I am constantly trying to walk the fine line of getting descent shots doing this. But once you get it, the shots are killer.

My 5D does not do as well... my 1/400 looks more like your 1/500.... or sometimes even closer to your 1/640.

The world is my backdrop... it provides a lot of variety!


5DmkII, 5DmkIII, 5DS R, 15mm, 16-35 f/2.8 II L, 100 Macro f/2.8 L, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 85 f/1.8, 580EX II, 580EX, 550EX
http://www.pixelcraftp​hoto.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dan-o
Goldmember
Avatar
3,539 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Apr 2006
Location: So. Cal.
     
Nov 13, 2008 10:15 |  #7

It's very difficult to get the shutter down to 1/200 in the Arizona sun..

It is in So. California too. I use a ND filter to get the shutter down to sync speed.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Danny.
DMunsonPhoto (external link)
Cycling Illustrated (external link)
FaceBook Page (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,156 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3424
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Nov 13, 2008 10:33 |  #8

Dermit wrote in post #6678696 (external link)
There are many instances to try and get higher shutter speeds with flash. The most common for me is on location, outdoors, during daylight. If I want my flash to be a large contributor to the exposure on a subject in full shade but the background is in full sun then a faster shutter will allow me to have a larger aperture which gives me a desired shallow DOF as well as helping out my flash to work less. It's very difficult to get the shutter down to 1/200 in the Arizona sun.. even in shade during the day. And when I often try to underexpose the bright background it only makes matters worse. So this technique PhotosGuy describes could be a viable option, but you really need to know exaclty where your cutoff point is.

Thanks, I'm aware of the contribution balance (flash vs. ambient) reason. In fact, the flash vs. ambient color balance issue is another permutation of that same issue. But I was wondering if that was the reason for the OP, so I wanted to know the OP's reason


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,156 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3424
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Nov 13, 2008 10:36 |  #9

Dermit wrote in post #6678696 (external link)
It's very difficult to get the shutter down to 1/200 in the Arizona sun.. even in shade during the day..

And that is why I love medium format cameras with leaf shutters, like my Bronica outfit...HSS's intensity drop off is a killer, but I can sync to 1/500 with full output of my flash when using the Bronica! Now if only digital backs that fit Bronica were more affordable!


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2589
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Nov 13, 2008 11:00 |  #10

so I wanted to know the OP's reason

All right, now confess! You just wanted me to clarify my post! ;)

And that is why I love medium format cameras with leaf shutters, like my Bronica outfit...

When I semi-retired, I lost the use of the coolie that shlepped my equipment bags, so I travel even lighter now! :D


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Curtis ­ N
Master Flasher
Avatar
19,129 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Northern Illinois, US
     
Nov 14, 2008 23:00 |  #11

PhotosGuy wrote in post #6678539 (external link)
NOTE: You need an off-camera flash to get the higher shutter speeds.

Just to clarify: The key is to connect the flash such that the camera doesn't know it's there. An old-fashioned flash like a Vivitar 285HV or Sunpak 383 will work this way, even on the hotshoe.

The Strobist blog ran an article on cheating your shutter speed this way a while back.


"If you're not having fun, your pictures will reflect that." - Joe McNally
Chicago area POTN events (external link)
Flash Photography 101 | The EOS Flash Bible  (external link)| Techniques for Better On-Camera Flash (external link) | How to Use Flash Outdoors| Excel-based DOF Calculator (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jbergdoll
Goldmember
Avatar
1,176 posts
Joined Apr 2008
Location: Tempe, AZ
     
Nov 15, 2008 00:51 |  #12
bannedPermanent ban

You don't need a high shutter speed to freeze motion when using flash... Just make sure that your flash is putting out more light than the ambient, at a higher duration. I can shoot at 1/4 and still get the same amount of motion frozen as if I shot at 1/1000 with a Sunpak 544 on half power.


-Joseph
bergdollphoto.com (external link)
flickr (external link)
gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,156 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3424
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Nov 15, 2008 12:48 |  #13

PhotosGuy wrote in post #6679073 (external link)
All right, now confess! You just wanted me to clarify my post! ;)
When I semi-retired, I lost the use of the coolie that shlepped my equipment bags, so I travel even lighter now! :D

With the enormous size and weight of 1D series bodies, and of fast L lenses, methinks a Canon 1Ds outfit rivals my medium format for size and mass!


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
THREAD ­ STARTER
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2589
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Nov 29, 2008 08:47 |  #14

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=606090


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
eduardofrances
Senior Member
679 posts
Joined Oct 2006
     
Nov 29, 2008 10:01 |  #15

PhotosGuy wrote in post #6678665 (external link)
No, to eliminate ghosting from movement at 1/250 sec, which just isn't fast enough to freeze a spikers hand and a volleyball which can move at 100mph.

This shot is at 1/250 sec:

thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by PhotosGuy in
./showthread.php?p=667​8665&i=i11535528
forum: Flash and Studio Lighting


And this one, is at 1/500 without flash fill.

thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by PhotosGuy in
./showthread.php?p=667​8665&i=i97769326
forum: Flash and Studio Lighting

with flash photography the duration of the flash will be your "shutter", regardless of the max sync speed you have set if the flash duration isn't short enough it won't freeze movement.


http://flickr.com/phot​os/eduardofrances/ (external link) :D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

16,456 views & 0 likes for this thread
Strobe sync @ 1/400: Pushing the limits.
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Cut Out Way
840 guests, 313 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.