PJ Student: 24-70 or 580EX II?

After deliberation, I decided to put this thread in this section.

Anyhoo, I'm a photojournalist for my university newspaper and wanted some input for what to get myself for my birthday/Christmas (birthday is Dec. 5).

Although my gear is capable enough, having a 24-70 F/2.8 would create better pictures; at least I could turn down ISO and gain quality, get greater depth, and shoot in a few locations my 28-135 can't do. The 24-70L is undoubtedly too expensive now, but Sigma will eventually get on the ball and release their new HSM model. Having used Sigma's current 24-70, I'm not that impressed and would try the Canon version first.

On the other hand, if deemed a F/2.8 may not be worth the price right now, from what I've heard, a flash will take one's photography to a whole new level.

I don't really need anything wider than 24mm, I have my 10-20 for that, so please don't suggest a 17-50, 17-55, or the like - plus, they don't have enough reach. In addition, as much as I like primes, they aren't versatile enough.

So, speaking for PJ, what does the board say?

I use the 28-75 2.8 which was relatively cheaper, and I get astonishing results. BUT no USM/HSM etc. A flash is nice, and different, but can't always be used to create the best picture.

Agreed, the 28-75 2.8 here too, the color reproduction is wow enough to not need the canon 24 70. Go for a 430 EX and a 28-75!!

Thanks for the replies. I'd rather get one good item than two decent ones. Like, a 580 or 24-70L, than a 28-75 and 430. Quality over quantity. Reason: buy once and you're done.

Well that depends, what functions does the 580 have that the 430 can't accomplish for your needs =)? Also compare both the tamron and the canon side by side before deciding in case you realize it's not a big difference.

But if you are definitely set on the choice between the 24-70 and the 580, then think about which one would serve you a better purpose for what you are trying to accomplish . If you do mostly photojournalism perhaps you can use flash for fill during events with tons of harsh contrast.

I'd rather have the equipment to get the shot tomorrow than have better equipment to get the shot 6 months from now, while missing shots until then.

You're gonna miss a lot of opportunities as a PJ with that mindset.

I'd get a Sigma 24-60 f/2.8, which is much lighter, smaller and cheaper than the 24-70, and a 430EX, which is also much lighter and smaller than the 580EXII. You really don't need a 580 for PJ work. It only gives you 1 stop more power and some bells and whistles that have very little use for a PJ, but it is much larger and more intrusive.

You can get a 430EX and the Sigma 24-60 for about $400 total right now. Buy the 24-60 from Cameta Camera on Ebay for $214 shipped and the 430EX from Amazon.com for $190.

But if you're really stuck on limiting yourself with one of your options, get the flash.

DDCSD wrote in post #6687839
I'd rather have the equipment to get the shot tomorrow than have better equipment to get the shot 6 months from now, while missing shots until then.

You're gonna miss a lot of opportunities as a PJ with that mindset.

I'd get a Sigma 24-60 f/2.8, which is much lighter, smaller and cheaper than the 24-70, and a 430EX, which is also much lighter and smaller than the 580EXII. You really don't need a 580 for PJ work. It only gives you 1 stop more power and some bells and whistles that have very little use for a PJ, but it is much larger and more intrusive.

You can get a 430EX the Sigma 24-60 for about $400 total right now. Buy the 24-60 from Cameta Camera on Ebay for $214 shipped and the 430EX from Amazon.com for $190.

But if you're really stuck on limiting yourself with one of your options, get the flash.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I should have worded it more clearly that the flash would rarely, if at all be used for PJ work, and more for use other than PJ, and the lens is more as a gift than as a complete necessity. I can get the shots today, but more easily done with better gear. Of course I would like to make the shot, but I suppose I should have worked out my qualifications...

Wow, I came across pretty harsh there, sorry. I forgot to put some smileys in.

I really didn't mean it to sound as bad as It does at second read. I apologize.

I still would get a 430EX before getting a 580. It does pretty much anything the 580 will do, except fire a remote ETTL flash, which when it is your only flash doesn't really matter. When you find yourself needing another flash, then get the 580.

No problem, it happens online.

Do you know how the Sigma's 24-60 compares with its 24-70? I've used the latter, and as I said, I didn't like it very much. I haven't used Canon's, plus, I would really be stretching the funds. In any event, I wish Sigma would at least release the price for the HSM lens...

nphsbuckeye wrote in post #6687936
No problem, it happens online.

Do you know how the Sigma's 24-60 compares with its 24-70? I've used the latter, and as I said, I didn't like it very much. I haven't used Canon's, plus, I would really be stretching the funds. In any event, I wish Sigma would at least release the price for the HSM lens...

Depends why you don't like the Sigma 24-70, you also have the Tamron 28-75 as an option.

I don't like the MF system, the tightness zoom ring, and the AF noise (although that is bad as the other two, but silent is preferred).

nphsbuckeye wrote in post #6687962
I don't like the MF system, the tightness zoom ring, and the AF noise (although that is bad as the other two, but silent is preferred).

AF noise is about the same, optically the 24-70 has the edge, but neither is lacking in optical quality.

24-60 zooms in the opposite direction to the 24-70
24-60 is internal focusing so it does not get longer or shorter when focusing
24-60 has the good ole 77mm filter thread, the 24-70 is 82mm this bothers some people.

I think the 24-70 and 20mm 1.8 are the only ones to use the dual focus system.

I must be odd because I can see the benefit of the DF system, you might have to flick 2 switches but on of them is the focus ring and you have to put your hand on that anyway to focus the thing, so it adds 0.4 seconds to the switch time. When in AF mode you have this huge smooth lump of a focus ring to hold onto and you can rotate the lens in your hand without releasing your grip which is fantastic if you go from landscape to portrait and back a lot.

I don't have any experience with the zoom ring on the 24-60, but both my EX lenses (24-70 and 17-35) are stiffer at the wide end, it seems they are designed this way as at the wide end 1mm makes a bigger difference so the idea is that you can change FL more accurately at the wide end and it loosens up at the long end when you need 10mm to make the same difference. It seems to be a design decision so it would not surprise me if the 24-60 was the same, but i'm just speculating that it is.

KarlosDaJackal wrote in post #6688072
AF noise is about the same, optically the 24-70 has the edge, but neither is lacking in optical quality.

24-60 zooms in the opposite direction to the 24-70
24-60 is internal focusing so it does not get longer or shorter when focusing
24-60 has the good ole 77mm filter thread, the 24-70 is 82mm this bothers some people.

I think the 24-70 and 20mm 1.8 are the only ones to use the dual focus system.

I must be odd because I can see the benefit of the DF system, you might have to flick 2 switches but on of them is the focus ring and you have to put your hand on that anyway to focus the thing, so it adds 0.4 seconds to the switch time. When in AF mode you have this huge smooth lump of a focus ring to hold onto and you can rotate the lens in your hand without releasing your grip which is fantastic if you go from landscape to portrait and back a lot.

I don't have any experience with the zoom ring on the 24-60, but both my EX lenses (24-70 and 17-35) are stiffer at the wide end, it seems they are designed this way as at the wide end 1mm makes a bigger difference so the idea is that you can change FL more accurately at the wide end and it loosens up at the long end when you need 10mm to make the same difference. It seems to be a design decision so it would not surprise me if the 24-60 was the same, but i'm just speculating that it is.

Thank you very much for the detailed response.

AF noise is not a huge deal, but you can imagine how it can get annoying when trying to be silent. But then again, our heads are right on the camera so we can hear it very well.

I'm not too worried about optics, as I've noticed they are both pretty good, especially at their respective prices.

I don't know about the dual AF as you, but I guess for sheer time, it's annoying.

I have the 10-20 and it has a smooth zoom ring, so maybe it's just the one model.

Anyhow, because of the feedback, I'm going to look into the 26-60 and 430.

Shameless bump.

I was reluctant to get a flash for a long time. I had heard folks say they experienced a higher keeper rate with flash and more pleased with the images overall.

So I purchased a 580II, learned some basic flash technique and I love my speedlites(2) , especially outdoors for fill flash. I would feel lost outside without a nice flash unit.