Linear TIFFs yet?

OK, I'm persistent, if nothing else.

Anyone tried the 16-bit linear TIFFs that come out of a G3 yet?


cheers,

No, what on earth is that? LOL

Frederique

Frederique: Don't laugh, be proud! Your G3 is capable of certain things that few cameras are, and most of those are super expensive DSLRs like the Canon D-30, D-60 and 1Ds. Because Canon provides us with the RAW image, taken directly from the sensor, we have more of the "negative" or original data than most who download JPGs or TIFs from their digicams. But even the RAW image is processed quite heavily by the built in Canon DSP before it's downloaded and converted using Canon's FVU, or BreezeBrowser, or PowerShovelII. Most of the processing is quite necessary in order for us to "see" an image that appears close to what we saw while standing at the camera and releasing the shutter. One of those processes is the imposition of a color profile, or look up table, to interpret the values at each pixel and convert to a value of red, green or blue when viewed. A linear image is the RAW image without any application of such a profile. When viewed, these linear images look dark, and weird, but they contain all the information from the sensor, and usually at 16 bits of data (even though the G3 only records 12, the other choice is 8 bits, which involves throwing away data.) With this 16-bit linear file you can play around with profiles, and create some wonderful images with greater dynamic range, more shadow detail and highlights held than other formats. Pekka, the original Canon digital photography guru, has done some amazing things with linear files, as have many others. You'll find much more about them on the DSLR forum here, rather than this G3 forum. The G2 is capable of producing linear files, but not the G1.
Doesn't seem as if many G3 owners are into linear files yet, probably because Canon's software, and BreezeBrowser do not allow for linear conversion from RAW files. It is possible though...
So, stand tall, and be amazed at what your little G3 is capable of...

cheers,

Gandini,
I hear you and feel you. I have been trying to do some linear conversions and am experimenting with it. Essentially I am also looking for help especially for G3. I have given up on BB and ZB because of the faults in the canon DLLs they use. Recently I heard and saw a lot of samples developed using PowerShovel 2. I am currently trying to get my raws processed with PS2. But I am struggling hard to get the correct postprocessing into my workflow using photoshop7. I also am struggling to create the proper G3 profile. I have a 18% grey card that I am using to get the proper values picked for Red and Blue in PS2. I have 420ex flash with sto-fen's omnibounce. I am currently in the process of taking multiple photographs of the gray card using different lighting conditions. Once that is done I will have my library of G3 values. But still I am puzzled with what kind of postprocessing i have to do to make my pictures look in clarity and accuracy like the ones I see on the web. It is going to be a big challenge. I am impressed with PS2 samples that I saw. So I am dedicating most of my time to learn PS2 and possible workflows for G3. One other place I saw a G3 workflow was from this site -
http://czech-web.cz/~jk/darkroom/ra​w.htm
Hope you have better luck than me and be able to share your experiences. By the way you influenced a lot in getting my G3. A great many thanks to you. i absolutely loved looking at your photographs.

You cant use linear or combined raw conversion on G3 files (yet)

Au contraire! You can't use Canon's dlls to perform linear conversion (hence FVU and BB are useless), but you can use PowerShovelIIs algorithms to get linear files out of a G3 RAW image. I have many of them, it's just as Photamat says, it's difficult without a G3 profile (icm file) to get a reasonable image in PS7 once you have the linear TIF file. A linear file is useless without the appropriate profile. They exist for G2 and all DSLRs that Canon makes so it's a matter of time before a G3 profile emerges.
I tried the workflow given in Photamat's link, but the profile suggested (from the AIM site) doesn't work for me--the image looks all washed out. The best I've gotten so far is to convert using the S45 lookup table in PSii and a gamma of 1.0 (linear)

cheers,

WOW!! Forgive my ignorance about the wonderful G3, I have good taste, buy what I like and I always seem to get something more than what I bargained for. So take my LOL at myself. I appreciate your knowledge and your giving me information about my camera that I might have never found out.

Thank you,
Frederique

Dear G3 People,

There's really no reason for me to get involved here since I don't own a G3, but I thought I'd offer some sympathy and a bit of personal experience with Linear conversions on the G2 -- for which there are several solutions.

About every three months, I play around with Linear to see if I'm missing anything. Generally, I find that most of what I'm missing is pain.

I own the G1 and G2, so I can only suggest what I'd do if I had a G3. I'd shoot in RAW knowing that eventually I'd have the tools to go back and convert to Linear and get that extra inch (1.27cm) of information out of my files. Until then, I'd content myself with the knowledge that what I'm missing now may not be as dramatic as my imagination would have me believe.

At least that's my take on the G2 linear files I've been experimenting with -- I've tried Rico's action, Zoran's profile, and most recently Fred Miranda's action and profile. The best of the lot is Fred's, but I must say that when I convert using BreezeBrowser's Combined mode and then independently do whatever enhancement I think is best for the Fred Linear and the BB Combined image -- even to the extent of "blind" comparisons later (where I don't know which is which, or, if I remember, I do my best to forget) -- I find that I choose the Combined image most often.

I say this 1) in regard to the G2 only, because the G3 offers two more bits of information that may make a huge difference, and 2) to make G3 owners feel better while they're waiting for a Linear Solution.

Who knows, when a Linear Solution is available, it may make a world of difference over the other conversions -- fortunately, if you shoot RAW you'll have the files to rework. That's what happened to me with the G2 and BreezeBrowser. At first there was just the Normal and Linear modes. Later, Chris added the Combined mode and I had the opportunity to re-convert files to see if it made a difference -- quite often it did. And of course I also have the option to continue to convert to Linear, use any number of enhancement methods and profiles (some not even created yet, I suppose) and compare the results to the other two methods.

So... patience and best of luck... RAW is still the way to go, no matter what you do with it. I'm just dropping in to say that you may find it's like wishing for a bike for Christmas -- and having Dad buy you a second-hand girl's model with baskets, balloon tires and fenders as big as a Ford's. Then again, it might be an all-Shimano 10-speed racer. (Let me know.)

When you do try Linear, remember what Philip says, there is no messing about by the camera -- so expect to do a ton of processing where before you would only do a few pounds. That means stronger enhancement than you thought you'd apply to any file, ever. My saturation and sharpening settings, for example, are about double what I would normally use.

You might also want to keep an eye on Fred Miranda's website in case he releases a G3 LPBatch proile and action. His technique is relatively painless, offers many options, and produces the best results of the three methods I've so far tried on G2 Linear files.

(Disclosure: I tried the Powershovel approach once, couldn't get it to work and abandoned it, especially since I continue to read very mixed reviews of the program).

Cheers,

Don

P.S. Having counseled "patience" above, I'll also say that it's pretty lame that nothing has come out of Canon to address this incredible processing blunder.

P.P.S. I knew I could create a longer post than Philip's, but then I know the secret of paragraphs.

As always, Don makes some wonderful points. I am excited about the G3 linear only because I've never before had a camera capable of producing a raw, RAW image (my G1 gave 8 bit images from RAW, but no linear option.) And I'm totally prepared to end up using linear mode on a rare occasion.
(new paragraph...)
What this venture into G3 linear frustration over the last 2 weeks has taught me, though, is that what you get out of a digital camera is not some invariate, fixed image, but the result of some serious DSP work. The people at Canon know a lot about their sensors, and how to get great images out of them without the user doing much except click, download, open and view (then maybe print.) But what linear mode makes you realize is that you, too, can compete with the Canon engineers. Now it's a lot of hard learning, and practice, for sure, but maybe you'll get something that you can truely say is "perfect," and it certainly gets you involved in more of the creative process (perhaps too much, as Don mentions!)

The problem at the moment with the G3 rests in 2 areas: the failure of Canon's software to allow linear mode conversion using their FVU or their SDK dlls. Second is the problem with white balance--the custom white balance setting cannot be read from the camera file according to Chris Breeze. I know that many of my images seem to have weird white balance, and even using a grey card I get some odd conversions.

Life was simpler with my G1 (and IR images looked better!) but I intend to persist with the G3, time allowing, and see what I can get out of it. I love the controls and overall it's an easier camera to use than the G1, but so far the images are not as satisfying. But that's an matter of time...

cheers,

Hi Philip,

Don't know about wonderful points... I was just rambling. In fact, I'd promised myself to remove that message if no one responded this morning because I didn't think it had much overall value.

But since you did respond, and now I have to leave it, I can add something useful... BreezeDownloader version 2 beta 2 is now available for download... (I wasn't aware there was a problem with downloading G3 files, but since it's mentioned by name, perhaps there was.)

http://www.breezesys.c​om/Downloader/index.ht​ml

New in version 2

Flexible download directory and file naming using the date, time, camera folder, ISO, camera model etc.
Auto-rotate of JPEGs when downloading (useful for cameras with orientation sensors)
Improved support for external storage devices such as the DigitalWallet, PicturePad etc.
Support for downloading from the latest Canon cameras: PowerShot S45 and G3, S230/IXUS v3, EOS 1Ds etc.
Option to rename files with .jpe extensions to .jpg

Cheers,

Don