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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 21 Nov 2008 (Friday) 11:20
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20D and 5D high ISO (samples inside)

 
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Nick_b
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Nov 21, 2008 11:20 |  #1

Often I wonder how cretin piece of equipment would improve or change my images. The 5D is one of those pieces. I'm trying one out so I thought I would bring it to a concert because that is one of my favorite photographic subjects.

Here are some shots.

EXIF is intact. All shots were PP in LR. I adjusted white balance only. I'm using LR's default RAW noise reduction.

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cdifoto
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Nov 21, 2008 12:16 |  #2

Prepare to be ripped for showing un-identical images for comparison and/or for using noise reduction. :D ;)


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elader
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Nov 21, 2008 12:24 |  #3

Nick I have 20K images on a 20D, 5K on a 40D, and 5K on a 5D. I have the 40D and 5D currently - I can pick out the 5D images in pixel peeping every time. But after post processing, and certainly in print up to 8x10, the 40D look as good, except at very high ISO.

Your images are useless for comparison - as noise is not constant at ISO3200 based on the camera, but also is based on the shot, exposure and processing. My experience at shooting hundreds of theater shots at high ISO is that the 5D is simply better.

Its not like I have some vested interest in the cam. I wuold love the 40D images to look as good. The 40D whips the 5D in every other attribute, but the image is the thing.


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Nick_b
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Nov 21, 2008 12:29 |  #4

elader wrote in post #6732894 (external link)
Nick I have 20K images on a 20D, 5K on a 40D, and 5K on a 5D. I have the 40D and 5D currently - I can pick out the 5D images in pixel peeping every time. But after post processing, and certainly in print up to 8x10, the 40D look as good, except at very high ISO.

Your images are useless for comparison - as noise is not constant at ISO3200 based on the camera, but also is based on the shot, exposure and processing. My experience at shooting hundreds of theater shots at high ISO is that the 5D is simply better.

Its not like I have some vested interest in the cam. I wuold love the 40D images to look as good. The 40D whips the 5D in every other attribute, but the image is the thing.

Sure, I'm just sharing some real world sample images that's all.


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brianch
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Nov 21, 2008 12:45 |  #5

no doubt the 20D is a steller performer and so is the 5D. Both are quite old. Maybe its time to forget both and get a 40D or a 5D II? I don't think there is any point for you to compare the two so closely. If you like the look and feel of full frame then get the 5D. If you think the 20D does justice just fine, and you have showed that it does. Then keep the 20D. If you have the upgrade bug then get the 40D because it is a great deal right now!


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bacchanal
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Nov 21, 2008 12:53 as a reply to  @ brianch's post |  #6

Yeah, if you haven't found any benefit at this point, maybe it's just not for you. They should be basically the same at the pixel level (as I think I mentioned in your other thread), but the 5D puts more pixels in the frame...thus giving you a noise/resolution advantage (assuming the same composition). This assumes that you either zoom in or move closer to the subject, which may or may not work out depending on your circumstances or style of shooting.
I really liked my 5D, loved the FF perspective/dof/FOV combo, but maybe that isn't a benefit for you.

Also, in your examples, you've taken some rather bright portions of the 20D images and you're comparing them to a darker oof/blurry 5D crop. I'm not really sure what you expect to see. Maybe you need to step back from the pixel peeping for awhile and just go shoot with the 5D 35L for a bit. Otherwise, just sell the thing and get some glass or something.


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Nick_b
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Nov 21, 2008 12:54 |  #7

brianch wrote in post #6733001 (external link)
no doubt the 20D is a steller performer and so is the 5D. Both are quite old. Maybe its time to forget both and get a 40D or a 5D II? I don't think there is any point for you to compare the two so closely. If you like the look and feel of full frame then get the 5D. If you think the 20D does justice just fine, and you have showed that it does. Then keep the 20D. If you have the upgrade bug then get the 40D because it is a great deal right now!


I'm not jumping to any conclusions here. I still have to take some pictures of postage stamps and then upsample them to 21MP. Only then will I truly know if this camera is for me.


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Nick_b
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Nov 21, 2008 12:57 |  #8

bacchanal wrote in post #6733042 (external link)
Yeah, if you haven't found any benefit at this point, maybe it's just not for you. They should be basically the same at the pixel level (as I think I mentioned in your other thread), but the 5D puts more pixels in the frame...thus giving you a noise/resolution advantage (assuming the same composition). This assumes that you either zoom in or move closer to the subject, which may or may not work out depending on your circumstances or style of shooting.
I really liked my 5D, loved the FF perspective/dof/FOV combo, but maybe that isn't a benefit for you.

Also, in your examples, you've taken some rather bright portions of the 20D images and you're comparing them to a darker oof/blurry 5D crop. I'm not really sure what you expect to see. Maybe you need to step back from the pixel peeping for awhile and just go shoot with the 5D 35L for a bit. Otherwise, just sell the thing and get some glass or something.

To be honest I really like the 5D and I'll post some real samples later. I'm just trying to show that maybe.... just maybe, the abilities of the 5D have been overstated in real world situations by people in forums.

EDIT: an example of the 5D's abilities being overstated. imo

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=603230

"I upgraded to a 5d from a Rebel XT. Its almost not fair to compare their ISO performance. You may still want to run a noiseware at really high iso, but not 400."


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bacchanal
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Nov 21, 2008 13:05 |  #9

Nick_b wrote in post #6733064 (external link)
To be honest I really like the 5D and I'll post some real samples later. I'm just trying to show that maybe.... just maybe, the abilities of the 5D have been overstated in real world situations by people in forums.

I'm absolutely sure that they have been, no question. The 5D maybe has a slight edge in per pixel IQ, but the real "magic" of the camera has everything to do with the FF sensor, which not every shooting style will take advantage of.


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Nick_b
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Nov 21, 2008 13:09 |  #10

bacchanal wrote in post #6733099 (external link)
I'm absolutely sure that they have been, no question. The 5D maybe has a slight edge in per pixel IQ, but the real "magic" of the camera has everything to do with the FF sensor, which not every shooting style will take advantage of.

I agree.


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Nov 21, 2008 13:10 |  #11

Nick_b wrote in post #6733050 (external link)
I'm not jumping to any conclusions here. I still have to take some pictures of postage stamps and then upsample them to 21MP. Only then will I truly know if this camera is for me.

Nick, you keep mentioning "postage stamps" here as if that was some niche that 5D shooters specialize in...well, it's not, in fact, there are a lot of people who prefer crop cameras for macro shooting.

You come across like you're trying to prove a point. That's fine, and in fact you have demonstrated a point, which is that with various scenarios, and especially when the right exposure is achieved, the 20D is capable of taking great pictures that can stack up well against 5D pictures. And, guess what? Everyone would agree with that.

But if you come across like you have a chip on your shoulder, as if those who find value added in shooting full frame are just blowing smoke at ourselves and others, well, those who have from experienced found that value added and who have tried to patiently share about that value added will eventually just figure it's you who are blowing smoke up your own...

Anyway, it really looks like you have been persuading yourself that the extra colst of a full-frame body is not worth whatever benefit it may or may not be to you, so, guess what? You don't need one! It's really simple -- don't spend the bucks if you don't see the value! Ended statements to challenge 5D people to "prove" the value of the 5D seems to have resulted in repeated go-arounds, with you repeating your meaningless "postage stamp" statement.


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bacchanal
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Nov 21, 2008 13:13 as a reply to  @ tonylong's post |  #12

Tony, I think the last thread just got out of hand. I think it started off as an honest question, and Nick got jumped on pretty quick. I'm not surprised that he's been a little defensive.


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Nov 21, 2008 13:35 |  #13

repeat myself repeat myself...
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=602327
I concur with tonylong and dragros...and predict this thread will be locked soon...:)


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Nov 21, 2008 13:48 |  #14

tonylong wrote in post #6733124 (external link)
You come across like you're trying to prove a point. That's fine, and in fact you have demonstrated a point, which is that with various scenarios, and especially when the right exposure is achieved, the 20D is capable of taking great pictures that can stack up well against 5D pictures. And, guess what? Everyone would agree with that.

But if you come across like you have a chip on your shoulder, as if those who find value added in shooting full frame are just blowing smoke at ourselves and others, well, those who have from experienced found that value added and who have tried to patiently share about that value added will eventually just figure it's you who are blowing smoke up your own...

Anyway, it really looks like you have been persuading yourself that the extra colst of a full-frame body is not worth whatever benefit it may or may not be to you, so, guess what? You don't need one! It's really simple -- don't spend the bucks if you don't see the value! Ended statements to challenge 5D people to "prove" the value of the 5D seems to have resulted in repeated go-arounds, with you repeating your meaningless "postage stamp" statement.

I agree with this. I avoided the first thread because it was clearly just going to devolve into stupidity. Coming back and posting that thread's ugly twin here to restart the discussion is masochistic.

What exactly is the OP hoping to see here? As was clear from the first thread, most people who are using FF cameras are doing so for reasons that are clear to them. If the OP isn't getting a difference then they should save their money.

But note that starting multiple threads trying to tell people who have opted for FF bodeis are all self-deluded is not likely to lead to a congenial discussion. And the sample images won't help given the nature of the shots.


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brianch
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Nov 21, 2008 13:51 |  #15

this discussion is giving me a headache.


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20D and 5D high ISO (samples inside)
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