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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 10 Dec 2008 (Wednesday) 14:17
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Accused of being a paedophile!!!

 
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Jamie ­ Holladay
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Dec 13, 2008 08:43 as a reply to  @ post 6870127 |  #361

thebishopp wrote in post #6869578 (external link)
The path of least resistence.... in fact it is usually the path suggested and touted by those who do not have the strength of character or conviction to take a harder path (misery loves company).

I am a very pragmatic person, but overe the past few years I have discovered in my professional life (day job) that paragmatic does not always work well. Taking the path of least resistance is, in most part, is natural for many people. However it is not always the best course of action. That is not to say that it can't be the best course of action. If everyone took the path of water then nothing gets done and we all loose.

tiziano wrote in post #6869964 (external link)
Maybe this is a cultural difference... anyway, where I come from, it's the opposite: the coward one is the one that hits a mom with children.

I can agree with that. Violence is not the answer but standing up for what is right is always the right think. Like I tell myself, my salespeople and anyone else that needs to hear: It is all in presentation. If the lady in the OP post had presented herself well then the OP could have inturn presented himself well and more than likely we would not be having this conversation. It is not what you say but the way you say it.

Scuff wrote in post #6870070 (external link)
I have been accused of being a paedophile when taking pictures in a park. So I can relate first hand to the OP. As I said, I not a kid person, so they weren't the main subject. A woman, rushed over and started having an irrational go at me. I let her rant on for a while but remained calm, this annoyed her even more and she grabbed the front of my 500f4. It was then that she got told in no uncertain terms to desist or suffer the consequenses. She then backed off and yelled that she was calling the police. I gave her the phone number and waited for the police to arrive. In the end she was warned by the police and that any continuance on her part would leave her liable to arrest. After she calmed down I was able to explain to her exactly what I was up to and she apologised. If she asked at the beginning this would never have happened, if I had walked away, she would have told everyone that she had chased off a paedophile.

I will do whatever it takes to protect myself, family and property from irate people, but will not take the blame for instigating situations just because I am enjoying my hobby/profession perfectly legally. I will absolutely not stand for being accused of being any sort of criminal.

Good story, proper actions IMHO. which is about what I was trying to encourage folks to do in the language above.


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Dec 13, 2008 09:49 |  #362

I disagree... doesn't take much of a spine to be a victim. In fact it was the EASIEST course of action for the OP to take and he took it (mainly, based on his statement, of confusion, fear of repercussion, etc.).

The path of least resistence.... in fact it is usually the path suggested and touted by those who do not have the strength of character or conviction to take a harder path (misery loves company).

It is not spineless to disengage and fall back to a defendable position that you can win from. It has nothing to do with spine, or path of least resistance. Someone who has strength of character or conviction is going to pick a place of engagement where they are going to win, not just engage because they feel some need to show off moral superiority. Winning has nothing to do with character nor spin... it has everything to do with picking the right time and place to engage.




  
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Dec 13, 2008 11:35 |  #363

Scuff wrote in post #6870070 (external link)
I have been accused of being a paedophile when taking pictures in a park. So I can relate first hand to the OP. As I said, I not a kid person, so they weren't the main subject. A woman, rushed over and started having an irrational go at me. I let her rant on for a while but remained calm, this annoyed her even more and she grabbed the front of my 500f4. It was then that she got told in no uncertain terms to desist or suffer the consequenses. She then backed off and yelled that she was calling the police. I gave her the phone number and waited for the police to arrive. In the end she was warned by the police and that any continuance on her part would leave her liable to arrest. After she calmed down I was able to explain to her exactly what I was up to and she apologised. If she asked at the beginning this would never have happened, if I had walked away, she would have told everyone that she had chased off a paedophile.

I will do whatever it takes to protect myself, family and property from irate people, but will not take the blame for instigating situations just because I am enjoying my hobby/profession perfectly legally. I will absolutely not stand for being accused of being any sort of criminal.

Not judging anyone here, just giving another view and example. Just don't let bullies walk all over you. Either know your rights and stand up for them yourself, or call the police to assist.

This is the exact situational response I've been trying to advocate.

Thank you.


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skygod44
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Dec 13, 2008 17:24 |  #364

Scuff wrote in post #6870070 (external link)
With 30 years on the front line of law enforcement, you learn very quickly that irate people are very difficult to deal with, there is no reasoning with them.

I have been accused of being a paedophile...if I had walked away, she would have told everyone that she had chased off a paedophile.

I will absolutely not stand for being accused of being any sort of criminal.

They cannot make you delete pictures, touch your camera or stop you from taking pictures of them or anything else in a public place.

Looks like this is pretty much "a wrap".

I think you've clearly stated enough (professional?) facts to allow us all to deal with this type of situation if/when it happens. Thank you.

#1 Know the law.

#2 Do not allow bullies/over-protective people to take away basic rights.

3# Remain as calm as possible.

Let's hope we can all benefit from this thread, and improve the general public's opinion of photographers.


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thebishopp
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Dec 13, 2008 17:40 |  #365

Croasdail wrote in post #6870427 (external link)
It is not spineless to disengage and fall back to a defendable position that you can win from. It has nothing to do with spine, or path of least resistance. Someone who has strength of character or conviction is going to pick a place of engagement where they are going to win, not just engage because they feel some need to show off moral superiority. Winning has nothing to do with character nor spin... it has everything to do with picking the right time and place to engage.

You are right in that if your intent is to fall back to a defendable position in which you can win from, or at least give an opponent a good "what for". What I am speaking out against is falling back for reasons other than to continue the fight (if this makes any sense to you). It is one thing to "reposition" for strategic reasons, and quite another to "retreat" because of fear. There are quite a few that do the latter and try to claim it as the former for pride reasons.

As Scuff stated, he had a similiar experience but did not back down and instead stood his ground and had the woman call the police (in fact I totally agree how he handled the situation).

Despite some of the naysayers here, about how once the "P" word is used they are autmatically going to be arrested so they should just retreat, the police, in scuff's case, warned the woman! After she was warned by the PD and calmed down he was then able to explain things to her. His actions "count" for "standing up for yourself" despite his risk of arrest.

It's not always about winning (there are many different forms of victory) and has nothing to do with "moral" superiority, it's about standing up when you know you are right regardless of the consequences (keep in mind standing up doesn't neccesarily mean you have to pull out a gun or weapon or INITIATE a physical assault as some people seem to think).

Someone with strength of character and conviction will do so, someone without it will base his actions SOLEY on his ability to win (and we wouldn't have moments in history such as Thermopylae).

Here is a good quote:

“Your true character is revealed by the clarity of your convictions, the choices you make, and the promises you keep. Hold strongly to your principles and refuse to follow the currents of convenience. What you say and do defines who you are, and who you are, you are forever.”


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CAL ­ Imagery
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Dec 13, 2008 18:06 |  #366

I agree with scuff (I skimmed through his post, so I won't say I completely agree).

I have no problem defending myself against anyone; I am not a coward.


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Dec 13, 2008 18:19 |  #367

It seems easy on this thread to confuse cowardice and adulthood.

It is very important how you choose a reaction.

BTW, everyone's a lion on a keyboard.


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Dec 13, 2008 18:37 as a reply to  @ S.Horton's post |  #368

The situation is sadly more confused these days - there are many things the woman could have accused mystery machine of and it would be easy for him to stand up and defend himself. But an accusation like paedophile - if there is any kind of fuss kicked up and the news spreads around - even when everyone learns it is a false accusation and he has not broken any laws at all in taking or publishing the pics - he still ends up in his local community associated with that accusation.

The general public are stupid, and cruel.

So sometimes, it's not worth it.


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Dec 13, 2008 19:10 |  #369

you are calmer than I am. If someone walks towards me like that, they'll be kissing the ground no questions asked.

You want to be in a public place that's the cost of it, and i'm in the right to take pictures. NOW... if someone asked me nicely for me not to take pics I would more than gladly agree.


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Dec 13, 2008 19:18 |  #370

equetefue wrote in post #6872989 (external link)
you are calmer than I am. If someone walks towards me like that, they'll be kissing the ground no questions asked.

Punching a woman to the ground with her children looking on as she screams 'paedophile' at you?

Doesn't matter who's in the wrong in that case at all... you would never get to show your face in your local community again.


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equetefue
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Dec 13, 2008 19:20 |  #371

I would have no problem at all to show myself in the local community at all. It's self defense


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Dec 13, 2008 19:28 |  #372

equetefue wrote in post #6873036 (external link)
I would have no problem at all to show myself in the local community at all. It's self defense

But you would be labelled as a paedophile and a woman beater. Of course neither of those things are true, but as I said the public are stupid, and cruel. If you didn't live in an area full of moron thugs looking for an excuse to murder someone, you'd at least be out of a job. Forever.


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Dec 13, 2008 19:31 |  #373

timmyeatchips wrote in post #6873071 (external link)
If you didn't live in an area full of moron thugs looking for an excuse to murder someone, you'd at least be out of a job. Forever.

That's not true either. One could always run for public office.


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Dec 13, 2008 20:20 |  #374

cdifoto wrote in post #6873092 (external link)
That's not true either. One could always run for public office.

Hee =D


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Dec 14, 2008 07:22 |  #375

Well, seems the thread has about run its natural course. My view is this, and I have read the whole thread, but will admit, skimmed through some posts.

My view is this, we can only take the original post at face value, many of us are sitting a half a world away, but we were not there, we did not see the incident, we have only one side to a story which in fact could well be a fairy tale for all we know.

There have been some interesting reactions, but I have learnt in my 60 yrs on this earth, learnt as a child in fact, if you confront a confrontation, you will have a major confrontation. I have been in some far worse than this, and most are fixed with a little diplomacy.

A Chinese man once taught me and it stayed in my mind, if you are weak, make out you are strong, if you are strong, make out you are weak. I found those to be wise words, and they do not just apply to fisticuffs, but to every day situations.

It really is amazing how many situations can be diffused with a plain old fashioned smile. You see somebody lumbering towards you in full fury, you speak first and say, "Hi, How are you?", before they stop. You have immediately disarmed them. You don't raise your voice, you don't produce a defensive weapon, whatever it is, and you don't back off, or give off an offensive body language.

Ok, screaming peadophile at you is a bit over the top and nasty, but you continue to speak quietly and calmly. Do not immediately go "I am not" in a loud voice or even show anger. Just calmly something like I am an amateur photographer, say your the kids playing and thought it looked cute, (which it does) or some such.

Like others have suggested I carry cards, I am a rank amateur but it says Christopher John, Photographer and gives an address and landline phone number plus an email address. (I have since set up the Flickr a/c)

I do believe as photographers we do need to realise that this sort of thing may happen in our lifetime, and frankly be prepared for it, before it happens.

The point is, a win can be defined in many ways, backing off and backing down with your reputation intact and the situation controlled, is most definately a win, a good one at that. I do think if the Police did get involved, mostly they would hear that P word and march you off and at least check you out, which even if only a mild talk at the station, would be most uncomfortable, I would rather be taking photos than assuring the cops I am not a peadophile.

I do think it is all important to be aware, the public every where is aware of how little privacy they do have, most think it is rather precious as do I.

Unfortunately peadophilia is back in the news here, there has been a large ring smashed in Australia, which again has included teachers and cops. So far no Kiwis as yet, but the last large bust, sponsered by the FBI, netted cops and teachers in Australia and a small town Mayor in NZ.

The general public is very aware of this sort of behaviour, and like another posted, I would not like to see my grandkids posted on the net without permission, primarily because there are also reports of innocent pics fotochopped and ending up you know where.

So a bit of empathy with others is essential, in a public place there is no need to ask permission, but............... I do feel if some one says "No photos" they have a right to expect me to stop, and I respect that right.

Having said all that, I once snapped a shot of a lady and her 2 kids dancing and having fun in some spot lights pools of light in a NZ Museam (where I found later they do not like photos taken ), I told her what I had done and she frankly was delighted, shame the shutter speed was too slow, but it is still one of my all time favourite shots.

The point of all this? Have a cool head, expect problems and mostly they won't happen, have an escape route, and you won't win if you play the big "I have a right" heman, or woman for that matter.

Sorry if I have stepped on some toes, but then again, I am not really.


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