Hasselblad ..... which one?

It is mostly a fun for my to photography for now, and i will use any gear for that and really i don't feel regret to use any tool, until now i never have any issue with all my gear because i always choose what i really want even i don't use it that much, but believe it or not, there are always situations where i need one camera or another lens, so i try to have complete set of gear so then i never feel i am missing something, and the only missing in my gear collection is a medium format, for any reason as some said i don't need it, but really i am thinking seriously to start a career in photography sooner or later, so i want to be ready for that, can't imagine if they ask me if i can use a film or medium format then i answer no, not yet, so i should be ready now with a medium format or even film then i can be proud that i can use some systems, until that time i just want to enjoy and have fun, i don't want to say but i also feel jealous when others using expensive gear whether it is for fun or mostly for business and doesn't matter if they rented or own.

I am worry this thread going nowhere, so just i didn't have many options and confusing myself much, in MF world i just focus on Hasselblad, and even i focus in H3D series, if i keep my options open then i will have maybe 10 choices, and sure out of those ten people here will recommend me 4-6 highly then i will not buy anything.
For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs and many tested them all but still there are many drooling for H3D anyway, and in many cases when the prices is so universe size then they try to ignore it and look at another cheaper options.

Tareq wrote in post #6894390
For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs.

I don't know, it's not even MF by MF standards. Its sensor is 36x48mm, which is just two 35mm frames stitched together, and the smallest recognized film MF frame is 50% larger (60x45).

Tareq, does your current career lend itself to a move to photography? What I mean, is it something that would be a natural bridge to a job in photography?

One possible danger I see here is that you are so focused on a wide range of gear - it seems like GEAR is more important to you than anything else - that you may be missing opportunities for your technique to grow and mature.

Your work is good.... I've perused your galleries.... but I've seen people become so obsessed with collecting everything just for the sake of more "stuff", their work does not move forward.

Tareq wrote in post #6894390
.....but really i am thinking seriously to start a career in photography sooner or later, so i want to be ready for that, can't imagine if they ask me if i can use a film or medium format then i answer no, not yet, so i should be ready now with a medium format or even film then i can be proud that i can use some systems, ..........., and even i focus in H3D series, if i keep my options open then i will have maybe 10 choices, and sure out of those ten people here will recommend me 4-6 highly then i will not buy anything........

Perhaps this is true in the studio and advertising world - most of those are leases since I don't think you'll see too many POTN folks being able to afford them - so these are just not as practical for everyday use.

But I will echo those others - you want it, you have the money so just go ahead and get it.

Tareq wrote in post #6894390
......For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs and many tested them all but still there are many drooling for H3D anyway, and in many cases when the prices is so universe size then they try to ignore it and look at another cheaper options.

Why not just go for broke and get the phase one P65+

Tareq,

What are you planning on doing for lenses for the H3D?

hmmmmmmmmmm, ok, i am very sorry to start this thread,i was asking simple question but it led us to go further more.
To be honest, i hate my current job [civil engineer] very much, and i try to find another job but seems it is difficult in my country for some reasons, and after i enter photography world i loved it and after 3 years [Still new and refresh] i feel i should have a career in what i really love and interested in, so that i will never stop to pay and spend all what i have for what i love.

If you people really care and worry that i shouldn't waste and spend that much and get more then i don't know what to say, i wish most of you come and live same my situations and then will see how they can get into photography? by the way, i am not the only person, i know some friends who are members of our photography club doing the same, and their works are good enough an they don't need more, but what you all here don't know is that we are in UAE as original citizen of UAE [and some other closer nationalities] have very bad habit which is we like always to show that we have the best, so if someone buy 1 camera i buy 2, if i buy $5000 lens the other but $50k lens and so.

Anyway, i just was so happy to buy any medium format, and my heart was going to H3D, but seems i shouldn't talk about what i buy at all even if i will buy a palace and a plane.

Now i hope a mod close this thread as i don't want many recommendation about another cameras or to stop planning to get one, i asked if i should get 31 or 39 or even to go for 50mp directly, but even this question is not supposed to be here, all will give their own thinking whether it is wisely or something else, and i already wasted too much money on gear that many think that i don't use it at all if need it so it will be the same if i buy a MF that costs 3x of one top DSLR body, i appreciate all the replies here, now i should ask or wait for the answer, i will follow what is there and even i am not looking to post anything about H3D if i will get one because this is mostly Canon forum [even any posts of different brand can be posted here] so i should post in Hasselblad forum, i signed in Nikon Forum as many here but i never post one shot there, so please let's stop now and shouldn't talk what is photography will do for me or what i can do to photography, you all know it is just a fun and a hobby for me and shouldn't advise me to stop now as it is late.

Tareq,
Since your culture has ingrained the need to " keep up with the al-Joneses " , if you have the money, do it.
The point I was making about the expense was merely that medium format digital is a very large expense which depreciates in commercial value and in technical value very rapidly. So if you accept the fact that digital bodies have a two year halflife ($8k body is worth $4k on the used market after 2 years), then depreciating and eating that 'loss' for a medium format digital is throwing an even larger purse away in the same period of time. For that reason, digital back makers like Aptus and Leaf have offered business leases, so that at the end of the period, they take back the old stuff and provide you with the newest stuff to use instead, rather than you being stuck with an 'old technology' product that you cannot sell (due to limited market interest).
Using a high expense digital body can easily be a saving to the professional, when the business volume is sufficient. Many years ago, I calculated that a wedding pro would spend as much for film based wedding jobs (film, processing) as a 1D body costs, if he/she simply shot one wedding each weekend for the year...and that calculation was using the more conservative shooting that film photographers were accustomed to! For the pro who needs a digital file for a client, one can simply shoot on film, use an inexpensive scanner to provide previews, and then pay for a very expensive drum scan to create the final files for the customer. A digital back is not the only solution, and would be much less expensive to use the film+scanner approach. But if your culture has ingrained the need to 'keep up with the al-Joneses', if such a money saving method might not keep you sufficient high in stature within your community, then you need to take the more expensive approach. It just seems a shame to throw money away, even when you have it to squander without thought!

Wilt wrote in post #6896868
Tareq,
Since your culture has ingrained the need to " keep up with the al-Joneses " , if you have the money, do it.
The point I was making about the expense was merely that medium format digital is a very large expense which depreciates in commercial value and in technical value very rapidly. So if you accept the fact that digital bodies have a two year halflife ($8k body is worth $4k on the used market after 2 years), then depreciating and eating that 'loss' for a medium format digital is throwing an even larger purse away in the same period of time. For that reason, digital back makers like Aptus and Leaf have offered business leases, so that at the end of the period, they take back the old stuff and provide you with the newest stuff to use instead, rather than you being stuck with an 'old technology' product that you cannot sell (due to limited market interest).
Using a high expense digital body can easily be a saving to the professional, when the business volume is sufficient. Many years ago, I calculated that a wedding pro would spend as much for film based wedding jobs (film, processing) as a 1D body costs, if he/she simply shot one wedding each weekend for the year...and that calculation was using the more conservative shooting that film photographers were accustomed to! For the pro who needs a digital file for a client, one can simply shoot on film, use an inexpensive scanner to provide previews, and then pay for a very expensive drum scan to create the final files for the customer. A digital back is not the only solution, and would be much less expensive to use the film+scanner approach. But if your culture has ingrained the need to 'keep up with the al-Joneses', if such a money saving method might not keep you sufficient high in stature within your community, then you need to take the more expensive approach. It just seems a shame to throw money away, even when you have it to squander without thought!

And why i keep 1Ds markII and 1D MarkIIN and 5D? because i know i will sell them with half price or maybe less, so that i never sell any of my gear, and i never buy a product to sell it later, still i have a car since 2003 and many many of my friends who hs same car sold it and replace it with 2005 then 2006 and now 2008.

I understand your point, but what that will do to my decisions anyway, and i talked with that guy when i was there in the store and he told me many pros coming to his shop to get that hasselblad and they never think about film, and they are pros [Unless you don't accept or consider them as pros at all], even he told me now that the market here in UAE are not going with films, so that i didn't want to have a mistake to buy cheap MF film camera and a scanner and i know that flm market here is low or almost disappeared, it will take longer for me to process film and then scan it, and also to buy another MF with different digital back, from what i see that digital back itself is very expnesive, maybe i will pay more on that than to get a H3D, that salesman is a nice huy with me and he gave me good offer if i want to go with it, even he told me he will give me the body with the lens free, doesn't matter for me how quality is that lens but it is not cheap lens at all as well, so why i have to miss the opportunity? believe me if the offer and the price is not good then i will never think about it, but maybe it is my luck now to have something like that offer, What do you think of these prices?

Hasselblad H3D 31mp II + 80mm lens = about $16500 [60,000AED]
Hasselblad H3D 31mp II + 80mm lens = about $22000 [80,000AED]

All New completely from the factory and no shipping or taxes.

Forgot to say that i can pay half or 1/3 now and then monthly payment.

Tareq,
We are worlds apart. Here, many pros will not use medium format digital because their clients are not so demanding as to force its use, and the expense and rapid depreciation makes it a less than optimal business 'investment'...therefo​re the business lease. You see many 'FF digital is as good as medium format' comparisons, so the buying public just does not go looking for medium format digital photographers! It seems in your area, it is a necessity, to undertake that level of expense in order to be competitive, on the other hand. Worlds apart.

I can buy a 31MP Hassy H3D with 80mm lens, any day of the week, for $17,900. Direct comparison of prices is rather meaningless, as I have no idea what 'full price' is in your country. Tariffs and taxes often make direct comparisons between countries illogical.

Wilt wrote in post #6897434
Tareq,
We are worlds apart. Here, many pros will not use medium format digital because their clients are not so demanding as to force its use, and the expense and rapid depreciation makes it a less than optimal business 'investment'...therefo​re the business lease. You see many 'FF digital is as good as medium format' comparisons, so the buying public just does not go looking for medium format digital photographers! It seems in your area, it is a necessity, to undertake that level of expense in order to be competitive, on the other hand. Worlds apart.

I can buy a 31MP Hassy H3D with 80mm lens, any day of the week, for $17,900. Direct comparison of prices is rather meaningless, as I have no idea what 'full price' is in your country. Tariffs and taxes often make direct comparisons between countries illogical.

Even i don't know about the tariffes and taxes here, they said that we don't have taxes at all, but there are many products so expensive maybe same as in Europe or UK where they have taxes so badly so how come we don't have any taxes [LIars], some products are cheaper other way.
I will buy medium format for myself first of all, then later i will think if our business here really care that i have Medium or DSLR or even large, the problem this salesman i talked with him many times about how good cameras are now and it is important with the skills and talents, he said i agree, but really no camera can be closer to medium or large format even the best DSLRs, and from his position and the place [Dubai, the capital of business in UAE] he saw many pros coming to buy or rent MF [he sells only Hasselblad] even they have top DSLRs, the only way is that i will ask him to do a meeting with them so i can come and ask them why you choose MFs if you already have 1Ds2/3 and D3 and 5DII, so with their answers i can see what keep them in Medium formats range mostly than DSLRs, and if the reason is because the resolution and large printing then this reason is enough for me as well, but really here is different than USA or Canada or Europe, maybe to you film and MF are not necesary but here we can get more income and clients with MFs than DSLRs, not saying that DSLRs are useless but we use those DSLRs for sports and landscapes and photojounalism mostly and keep MF or LF for dedicated studio and advertisement work.

Tareq,
I shot medium format film for a very long time, so I well understand the merits of a larger format (look at my equipment list!). With digital the premium paid for going from APS-C to FF is high, and the premium for going from FF to 645 format is also high...US$1200 vs. US$3000 vs. US$8000 (Mamiya), and the added cost of the leap to Hasselblad is incredible even for a relatively 'old technology' 31MP (US$17.9k) and if you want current state-of-art it is outright unthinkable for most...H3DII at $28k...one could buy a lot of lighting and multiple formats for the price of one camera+lens+digital back! Interesting the price differential rendered digital medium and large format not a realistic purchase except for certain specialized uses, compared to how widely medium format film equipment and large format film equipment had become so necessary for film recording. At least finally Mamiya moved it from a 5-digit US Dollar cost to a 4-digit cost! The fact that FF digital is so high in quality that it made larger format digital less essential was also key in this slow acceptance of anything larger.

I wish the USA produced enough oil so that its citizens could be free of income tax, too! It will be interesting to see what happens as Dubai oil becomes scarcer.

Tareq, how large do you want to make your prints?

Other than that I see a couple of really big problems here. And I come to this conclusion after reading your recent posts. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE at all what gear you end up getting. You will never be satisfied with what you get. That has become painfully obvious. There will always be "something better out there...."

In your country apparently it's all about who has the biggest camera or the longest lens. It seems to be a gear competition as opposed to a skill competition.

Also, most of us cannot relate to your economics. As Wilt so aptly states, we are worlds apart. It makes no difference how much $$$ you throw at gear, and that's ok; it's just that many of us outside of the UAE are stuggling with what we have just to stay afloat. An most of us turn out some damn good images with far less expensive gear.

But I say go ahead and spend the money - you won't be happy or unhappy, just locked into the never ending chase to impress other photographers and get the latest gear. When you get older and perhaps face more responsibility, maybe you will see truly unimportant many of these things really are.

Wilt wrote in post #6898587
Tareq,
I shot medium format film for a very long time, so I well understand the merits of a larger format (look at my equipment list!). With digital the premium paid for going from APS-C to FF is high, and the premium for going from FF to 645 format is also high...US$1200 vs. US$3000 vs. US$8000 (Mamiya), and the added cost of the leap to Hasselblad is incredible even for a relatively 'old technology' 31MP (US$17.9k) and if you want current state-of-art it is outright unthinkable for most...H3DII at $28k...one could buy a lot of lighting and multiple formats for the price of one camera+lens+digital back! Interesting the price differential rendered digital medium and large format not a realistic purchase except for certain specialized uses, compared to how widely medium format film equipment and large format film equipment had become so necessary for film recording. At least finally Mamiya moved it from a 5-digit US Dollar cost to a 4-digit cost! The fact that FF digital is so high in quality that it made larger format digital less essential was also key in this slow acceptance of anything larger.

I wish the USA produced enough oil so that its citizens could be free of income tax, too! It will be interesting to see what happens as Dubai oil becomes scarcer.

Say UAE not Dubai, as Dubai don't have oil so they depends on tourism and financial issues, Abu Dhabi is the Capital of UAE and has oil enough to cover all UAE.
Back to cameras issues, anyway, i have DSLR and they are really amazing, i just want to use Medium format, and to get that Mamyia one which is about equal price of 1Ds bodies then i shouldn't think about getting MFs then, do you know any medium format that shoot digital and in about 32+ resolution?