My 5D MkII first impressions...

Now that I have it and have a whole 6 hours with it, why is ANYONE complaining?

The two things that seem to be the most contentious 1) AF system; 2) "black dots."

AF for me, no issue. The AF seems to be better than my 40D, which to be honest I felt is a bit flaky, and while not rip-roaring fast it is not exactly slow either. Sure, I would love 50 some-odd points, but I am not sure I would get any better photos...and it is just nailing the focus (the 40D anti-alias filter to me is WAY too strong, I never felt anything was sharp on that camera - and yes, I did test it).

Black dots? People must be just pushing things to the extreme to prove that the black dots do appear...I can find nothing, and I keep pointing my camera at the Christmas tree - what issue there is, is very small. No worries, buy the camera.

Other stuff: I think it is built as well as the much vaunted D700. Personally, I think the Nikon stuff is over-rated here. First, the joystick on the D700 is junk. Second, beyond that black flecked finish of the Nikon - which Canon never uses except on some L lenses and the G series (?) - looks nice, the finish is much nicer on the 5DMkII then on the xxD series or the last 5D - it doesn't scream at you but when you take a close look, it is beautifully done. Weather-sealing is much better (where you can see it). The plastic pieces are of a nicer quality (it seems). Sure, Nikon's have a few nice ergonomic touches, but they aren't enough to get me to switch and re-learn everything.

Okay, importantly, pictures: They are incredible. So, it has slightly less usable 25.6k ISO. SO WHAT? It also has 9+more MP - what do you expect? Think about this: slightly inferior 25.6k ISO to a 12MP camera. So it shoots one less frame per second than the Sony (in 12-bit, not 14-bit), and the D700 (without the grip). Big whoop. Also, Nikon doesn't have any modern primes, and the full-frame zooms that are up to date are mostly sharp only in the center, because Nikon only recently made the jump from designing for DX. Sure, they've got a few new nice lenses. Canon has had many more up to date designs for years - we have a lot to be thankful for here. Did I mention Nikon doesn't have any pro f4s and is generally more expensive. Want to know why the D700 has more AF points and 25.6k ISO? Re-read this paragraph. They are still a bit behind in other areas...

Oh, did I mention the video? It's excellent.

So smile everyone who is bemoaning the AF system - this is a very competitive camera at a very competitive price. And forget about the dots, they are on the case, and you might only see the problem every few hundred (thousand?) shots anyway. And forget about the other guys, they are just making Canon work harder, and they are starting to push in the right direction after being lazy for a bit.

How many FPS does the 5D2 shoot once you add the vertical grip?

XterraJohn wrote in post #6993250
How many FPS does the 5D2 shoot once you add the vertical grip?

None extra, I think.. not a Canon thing to do..

XterraJohn wrote in post #6993250
How many FPS does the 5D2 shoot once you add the vertical grip?

Adding a grip does not change the frames per second.

Bryan

dmstraton wrote in post #6992658
AF for me, no issue. The AF seems to be better than my 40D

The one I tried for a couple of hours was nothing like as fast as my 40D when using the off-centre points. (Was fine for the centre one.)

I havent heard any complaints from any of the numerous pros whose sites I visit or talk to that do not love this camera.

Seems more like a "flame Nikon" thread but otherwise I am glad to hear more happy voices for this body.

Just a few more weeks andi shall have mine!!!

My wife has been trying to get me to switch to Nikon and though I think the D700 is a nice body I just see myself going any other way than with Canon.

My family has always used canon, I got to play with a good selection of FD glass as a kid and now the EF mount.

Its just part of me, can't change that. Though that doesn't mean that I won't "add" another brand to the mix.

I have to agree with the 40D being soft, mine is soo soft.

-Eric-

dmstraton wrote in post #6992658
Now that I have it and have a whole 6 hours with it, why is ANYONE complaining?

The two things that seem to be the most contentious 1) AF system; 2) "black dots."

AF for me, no issue. The AF seems to be better than my 40D, which to be honest I felt is a bit flaky, and while not rip-roaring fast it is not exactly slow either. Sure, I would love 50 some-odd points, but I am not sure I would get any better photos...and it is just nailing the focus (the 40D anti-alias filter to me is WAY too strong, I never felt anything was sharp on that camera - and yes, I did test it).

Black dots? People must be just pushing things to the extreme to prove that the black dots do appear...I can find nothing, and I keep pointing my camera at the Christmas tree - what issue there is, is very small. No worries, buy the camera.

Other stuff: I think it is built as well as the much vaunted D700. Personally, I think the Nikon stuff is over-rated here. First, the joystick on the D700 is junk. Second, beyond that black flecked finish of the Nikon - which Canon never uses except on some L lenses and the G series (?) - looks nice, the finish is much nicer on the 5DMkII then on the xxD series or the last 5D - it doesn't scream at you but when you take a close look, it is beautifully done. Weather-sealing is much better (where you can see it). The plastic pieces are of a nicer quality (it seems). Sure, Nikon's have a few nice ergonomic touches, but they aren't enough to get me to switch and re-learn everything.

Okay, importantly, pictures: They are incredible. So, it has slightly less usable 25.6k ISO. SO WHAT? It also has 9+more MP - what do you expect? Think about this: slightly inferior 25.6k ISO to a 12MP camera. So it shoots one less frame per second than the Sony (in 12-bit, not 14-bit), and the D700 (without the grip). Big whoop. Also, Nikon doesn't have any modern primes, and the full-frame zooms that are up to date are mostly sharp only in the center, because Nikon only recently made the jump from designing for DX. Sure, they've got a few new nice lenses. Canon has had many more up to date designs for years - we have a lot to be thankful for here. Did I mention Nikon doesn't have any pro f4s and is generally more expensive. Want to know why the D700 has more AF points and 25.6k ISO? Re-read this paragraph. They are still a bit behind in other areas...

Oh, did I mention the video? It's excellent.

So smile everyone who is bemoaning the AF system - this is a very competitive camera at a very competitive price. And forget about the dots, they are on the case, and you might only see the problem every few hundred (thousand?) shots anyway. And forget about the other guys, they are just making Canon work harder, and they are starting to push in the right direction after being lazy for a bit.

Thank you for some positive feedback on the 5D2. I also have no complaints with my camera!
Ian

NeoTokyo wrote in post #6993968
Seems more like a "flame Nikon" thread but otherwise I am glad to hear more happy voices for this body.

Just a few more weeks andi shall have mine!!!

My wife has been trying to get me to switch to Nikon and though I think the D700 is a nice body I just see myself going any other way than with Canon.

Just got my 5DmkII and due to the low light this evening have only been able to do initial tests but so far, it's very, very impressive. I did stop and think about looking at the D700 but there are no decent fast primes for the Noink and the stopping and thinking lasted just a few minutes before discarding that idea.

Ianfp wrote in post #6994108
Thank you for some positive feedback on the 5D2. I also have no complaints with my camera!
Ian

Thank you Ian and dmstraton!
I think it has been far too much whining about this body.
The spech for the 5DmkII is clear and well known, if it doesn't meet you requirements then forget about it and focus on trying to find a body that does.
How hard is that??
I guess the feeling of being able to write negative things on forums is a way to let the steam out.
As I wrote in another thread - think if every person not being satisfied had written a letter to Canon instead of bashing it around forums.

Despite a lot of negative loud mouths this camera seems to be a hit in terms of pre-orders

Candersson wrote in post #6996016
Thank you Ian and dmstraton!
I think it has been far too much whining about this body.
The spech for the 5DmkII is clear and well known, if it doesn't meet you requirements then forget about it and focus on trying to find a body that does.
How hard is that??
I guess the feeling of being able to write negative things on forums is a way to let the steam out.
As I wrote in another thread - think if every person not being satisfied had written a letter to Canon instead of bashing it around forums.

Despite a lot of negative loud mouths this camera seems to be a hit in terms of pre-orders

Thomas, I see you have a body on pre-order and a long time to wait! It is a great camera and I know it is worth the wait. Hopefully the price will have settled by the time you buy yours. I paid full price to ensure having one before Christmas. It was worth it though!
Good luck
Ian

Actually, I am not flaming Nikon - they are doing a ton of things right at this time. Much like Canon was 3 years ago when the original 5D was launched.

My point was that it seems like everyone is piling on - if you read the Nikon forums years ago, they sounded like this one - a bit demoralized. I actually think Canon's first big misstep was the 30D - they could have continued to jump ahead there, but thought they were unassailable - it was a great camera, but didn't break new ground..the D200 upped the ante feature wise, and the D300 upped it again.

I in fact looked at the D700 - the feature set is very compelling - I almost took the bite. But beyond the wide-angles, and the AF, I couldn't see what would really be any better on the "dark side." And Canon's starting to get it together again...

dmstraton wrote in post #6998658
Actually, I am not flaming Nikon - they are doing a ton of things right at this time. Much like Canon was 3 years ago when the original 5D was launched.

My point was that it seems like everyone is piling on - if you read the Nikon forums years ago, they sounded like this one - a bit demoralized. I actually think Canon's first big misstep was the 30D - they could have continued to jump ahead there, but thought they were unassailable - it was a great camera, but didn't break new ground..the D200 upped the ante feature wise, and the D300 upped it again.

I in fact looked at the D700 - the feature set is very compelling - I almost took the bite. But beyond the wide-angles, and the AF, I couldn't see what would really be any better on the "dark side." And Canon's starting to get it together again...

I think that most of what you said sounds reasonable, but, the part I take issue with is where you say that Canon is "starting to get it together again." Other than adding megapixels for the fun of it and allowing Canon users to basicly say, "but this one goes to 11," what are they getting together?

Ah, yes of course, you're right, it is debatable, but I think a couple of things have happened:

- I actually don't think they did put the extra MP in there for the fun of it, sure maybe their 25.6k ISO is not as useable as the D700/D3, nor should anyone expect it to be, but I have to say it is very impressive through 6400 - and they clearly knew Sony would enter at about the same pricepoint, they made the right choice on what was a trade-off
- Price point was aggressive on the 5D 2
- Seem to be addressing the issues (that all new cameras from anyone have) VERY quickly, big change from the 1D 3 fiasco.
- They shortened the time to 12 months got a new xxD camera to market - while not perfect it addressed most of the shortcomings of the 40D vs it's competition, that tells me that they knew it was time to accelerate product development; and I think this will happen with the 1 series too (not 12 months obviously), and I wouldn't be surprised if another xxD came next fall.
- Putting a sub-$3000 camera at IQ parity with their flagship resolution-wise, and with an overall boost to sensitivity tells me that they knew they needed to be more aggressive, and were finally more threatened by the competition than by protecting said flagship
- Putting in a very useable video mode, at 1080p and competitive codec, was/is a good decision, and they seem to have put some good work into the interface.
- They've continued to put out some excellent lenses or lens updates, even some of the new cheapies have gotten some decent reviews.

Is it all perfect? Absolutely No. But it's showing more progression than the past few seasons when they obviously felt they were unbeatable - all good for us.

XterraJohn wrote in post #6998929
I think that most of what you said sounds reasonable, but, the part I take issue with is where you say that Canon is "starting to get it together again." Other than adding megapixels for the fun of it and allowing Canon users to basicly say, "but this one goes to 11," what are they getting together?

Other than adding a whole lot of AF points and some weathersealing, what has Nikon done exactly?

My 20D still has a fast enough AF for me to shoot pretty much whatever I need to shoot, with it. 50 AF points wont make me a better photographer. It is funny - for the longest time, no one had any problems with the xxD's AF. Then Nikon puts in the 5 billion AF points and now no xxD Canon user can take a properly focused image anymore... yeah right.

As for weathersealing: if you are going to be using the gear in heavy rain, you'll be putting a raincover on it (to prevent water from falling on the front element and spoiling the shot). And for fog/mist, the xxD bodies are pretty well sealed. I've used mine in rain and sandstorms without any issues.

I am not a "Canon uber alles" fanboy but I dont see Nikon leading the way either. They're about even, with some advantages to either side.

Personally, I consider the 5D2 - a 21MP FF camera for $2700 or so - a big revolution in digital imagery.... the first real big step forward in DSLR evolution since the 20D. YMMV. If Nikon's advantages are more your style, go with Nikon.

Vandit