Auto-ISO really needs a configuration parameter

Sean wrote in post #7030785
I'm the opposite. I cannot stand Auto-ISO. I find it a heck of a lot easier to move my middle finger, and hit the ISO button and adjust. I tried it once, but it picking 400 ISO (40D) all the time had me annoyed.

The implementation of the Auto ISO feature on the 40D and 50D are MUCH different. Auto ISO on the 40D only worked in the range of ISO 200-800, and the camera ALWAYS chooses 400 as a starting point (at least on my 40D). As a result I never used auto iso on my 40D.

The 50D is MUCH better. Auto ISO range has expanded from ISO 100-1600, and the 50D attempts to use the lowest ISO to get the correct exposure. Also, the 50D takes into account the 1/FL rule, and ensures ISO gives the proper exposure for 1/FL. With my 50D, I just leave the camera in Auto ISO mode, it's that good.

fishman wrote in post #7030830
At the risk of being slightly cynical - Isn't the point of buying a DSLR so that you as the photographer have control over the settings you want to achieve your desired end result. If you want the camera to do everything for you then maybe a point and shoot would be better.
That is not meant as a personal attack, so please don't take it personally - I just find it strange that you someone would be happy to shell out for a top end DSLR and then want it to operate in what amounts to almost a fully automatic mode....

Using AutoISO shouldn't degrade the abilities of the photographer. I use auto iso all of the time on the 50D, and I don't feel any shame in doing so. I bought my 50D to shoot my daughter's high school theater. If you've ever watched a play, you'll see that the lighting on the stage is NEVER consistent. The actor can walk 10 feet and encounter three different lighting levels, from spot, to stage lighting, to no lighting. Each lighting type requires different exposures. When the actor is being highlighted by a spot light, the lighting is very intense, and thus I don't need high ISO. I can back down from ISO 1600 to possibly ISO 400. But when the actor is in the fill lighing, I might have to use ISO 800 to get the shutter speeds I need. If there actor is in a background with little/no lighting I might have to use ISO 1600-3200 to get the exposure.

In the sake of noise control, I always like to use the least ISO level as I can get away with to get the exposure I need. Using my 5D, this requires that I constantly watch the shutter speeds and change the ISO as needed. (I'm always at max aperture so ISO and Tv are the only variables I can change) With the 50D, I can forget about this aspect, at let the 50D manage the ISO for me. And it does a very good job thus far from what I've seen. (I do use long telephoto lenses, which does keep my shutter speeds high... around the 1/400 - 1/500 range)

At the end of the day, I'm still controlling the camera. What has effectively changed is I now let the camera be more proactive about the settings, and I override them where needed. Where as before, I had to continually change the settings to suite the expsoure. This is no different in letting the camera do the metering and set the exposure, or letting the AF try and determine the focus. I don't see alot of peole shelling out the money for a DSLR so that they can run around using manual ISO, manual metering, and manual focusing. Yes, there are some that do it, but if I'm paying for a $1000+ camera, I am paying for features that let me do my job easier.

I'd agree that it is better on the 5D Mkii as well (sounds like 50D acts the same). I thought it was a waste of time on the 40D, but the 1/FL rule (particularly on full-frame) works nicely. I left it on for a while when I got the camera and it worked great - I now have it set up that way as a custom function with Av mode. I haven't tried it in Tv yet, and if it works in that mode that would be great.

BigBlueDodge wrote in post #7034448
The 50D is MUCH better. Auto ISO range has expanded from ISO 100-1600, and the 50D attempts to use the lowest ISO to get the correct exposure. Also, the 50D takes into account the 1/FL rule, and ensures ISO gives the proper exposure for 1/FL. With my 50D, I just leave the camera in Auto ISO mode, it's that good.

if you like the auto-ISO implementation on the 50D, DO NOT try out a D300/700/3 at a camera store! while canon has gotten better, nikon and pentax have gotten it right for quite some time now.

fishman wrote in post #7030830
At the risk of being slightly cynical - Isn't the point of buying a DSLR so that you as the photographer have control over the settings you want to achieve your desired end result. If you want the camera to do everything for you then maybe a point and shoot would be better.
That is not meant as a personal attack, so please don't take it personally - I just find it strange that you someone would be happy to shell out for a top end DSLR and then want it to operate in what amounts to almost a fully automatic mode....

You beat me to it. I can't get over people shooting a camera above a point and shoot in "auto"

Auto ISO is not like shooting in auto mode. To have Auto ISO in fast pace situation is very convenience. Auto ISO might not be very useful for scenic photogaphy or any slow pace photography but as a wedding photographer, I found it very usefully.
I need to follow bride and groom anywhere they go and a lot of time two different rooms will have two different lighting situations, or even in the same room two different corners will have two different lighting. In a fast pace situation, if you lower your head to adjust ISO manually, you may already lose couple of good shots.
It's not like I can not live without Auto ISO, but for having Auto ISO definitely make the job easier.

I 2nd that we need auto iso custom configuration.

Kajuah wrote in post #7037321
I can't get over people shooting a camera above a point and shoot in "auto"

To each their own but I consider it less fun if you let the tool take over your job.

I agree. But when you get paid for your job, fun may not be priority anymore.
I had no problem using 5D classic in wedding, in fact it was my main camera. After 40D came along I just found that auto iso is a very convinence to use in fast pace situation.
A lot of time I will still prefer to manual adjust iso, especially in the portriat session, but when you are chasing around the bride and groom, they will not wait for you to adjust your camera. You miss a moment you may lose your quality work.

Kajuah wrote in post #7037409
To each their own but I consider it less fun if you let the tool take over your job.

Kajuah wrote in post #7037321
You beat me to it. I can't get over people shooting a camera above a point and shoot in "auto"

i dont understand this kind of logic. so you refuse to use a feature that helps us take better pictures?? but i thought this hobby was all about the pictures?? what if we removed auto from the name and called it TAv like pentax does. would you use it then? so this disdain for auto-ISO is kinda like a photography purist ideal, right??

if thats the case, then i assume you take pictures with a pinhole box, and develop all your shots in your own darkroom. does your purist mentality spill over to other aspects, such as using LP's over cd's?? do you still lock/unlock all your car doors manually, or roll down the windows manually?? pump water from a well?? im sure you have corded telephones in your house.

i think sometimes people mix up "purist" with "archaic." its kinda like an artist that uses pencil and paper or one that uses photoshop and a computer. one isnt more artistic than the other because one uses an "old school/purist" approach. its simply a different means to convey an expression. sometimes the pencil and paper will be better/more efficient, sometimes the computer will. but its all about the end result, right?? i guess to some its not about the end result...

I detest fully automagic, because the camera is a dumb tool that does not know who to interpret what it is pointed at. That is why EC exists, to allow the photographer to adjust for 'subject failure' (as Kodak put it) when the subject is brighter or darker than typical (you know, bride or black cat parable).

Yet, like daletu, I can fully appreciate the value of an Auto ISO that works well, because of the speed of operation issue, which is often essential in pro applications and even for many amateur ones. Shooting outdoor weddings, for example, it is good to be able to choose an aperture, for its limited DOF, and then let the camera choose the shutter speed so that as the scene rapidly changes you can simply shoot and not worry about perpetual adjustment of shutter speed. In that situation, you have two Constants (ISO, aperture) and a camera-set variable (shutter). So why not have two Constants (shutter, aperture) and a camera-set variable (ISO), so that you dictate the DOF and the motion stopping aspects, and let the camera find the ISO value to fit for that particular shot, so all you have to do is pick your initial aperture and shutter speed and shoot away?! This situation is not really different than pros choosing aperture and shutter speed, leaving the camera in M and letting the camera define the amount of flash supplemental light, after all!
A good design would even let you bias the auto ISO, with EC control to permit you to adjust for the 'subject failure'.

Wilt wrote in post #7038671
... Shooting outdoor weddings, for example, it is good to be able to choose an aperture, for its limited DOF, and then let the camera choose the shutter speed so that as the scene rapidly changes you can simply shoot and not worry about perpetual adjustment of shutter speed. In that situation, you have two Constants (ISO, aperture) and a camera-set variable (shutter). So why not have two Constants (shutter, aperture) and a camera-set variable (ISO), so that you dictate the DOF and the motion stopping aspects, and let the camera find the ISO value to fit for that particular shot, so all you have to do is pick your initial aperture and shutter speed and shoot away?! This situation is not really different than pros choosing aperture and shutter speed, leaving the camera in M and letting the camera define the amount of flash supplemental light, after all!...

Basically what I said back in post 9. Yet, people keep pounding on Auto ISO, like we're switching to the Green box. Some seem to keep arguing, without listening. They see Auto anything as bad. They must never use ETTL or an Auto Exposure mode(Tv,Av), looking down on the rest of us. They probably don't use AF either

JC4 wrote in post #7038700
Basically what I said back in post 9. Yet, people keep pounding on Auto ISO, like we're switching to the Green box. Some seem to keep arguing, without listening. They see Auto anything as bad. They must never use ETTL or an Auto Exposure mode(Tv,Av), looking down on the rest of us. They probably don't use AF either

these people must look at 1D cameras with utter horror.

"what, you mean it has Av and Tv!! and a super duper fast AUTO-focus system!! BAH! i dont want AUTO-anything!! yadda yadda yadda (continues yammering on about the good ol' days)..."

JC4 wrote in post #7038700
Basically what I said back in post 9. Yet, people keep pounding on Auto ISO, like we're switching to the Green box. Some seem to keep arguing, without listening. They see Auto anything as bad. They must never use ETTL or an Auto Exposure mode(Tv,Av), looking down on the rest of us. They probably don't use AF either

Yes, many fail to see that Auto does not have to translate to 'brainless operation', but that Auto can mean faster operation. I consider somewhat analogous to the transmission in my car, where I can let it pick the gears, or I can control the gears it is using at any point in time...when I control the gear, it is only taking care of my clutch operation. My brain is still controlling it.

Similarly, when I use Av or Tv I have control of at least two of the components of exposure (speed, aperture, ISO), and sometimes all three (if I am in full Manual). And even with Auto ISO I still am retaining control TWO of the components. It is only in P mode that I am relinquishing control, and totally so in Green Box mode-- the Push Here Dummy operation!

Wilt wrote in post #7038851
Similarly, when I use Av or Tv I have control of at least two of the components of exposure (speed, aperture, ISO), and sometimes all three (if I am in full Manual).

And for a given exposure the three components are constrained, so if you change one of them then you must compensate with one of the others.

Since I don't find noise-control as creative as aperture and speed, I would like to control both aperture and speed and let the machine compensate for correct exposure by changing the ISO component (and yes, delegating to the machine the creative task of calculating a multiplication ).

That's basically what I have described in my previous post as "MAI" mode, or you may call it "Av+Tv" mode... but let's leave the naming to the creative minds of Canon engineers .

About the AUTO-diatribe, there's more to a good photo than a perfect exposure.