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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 26 Jan 2009 (Monday) 22:00
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Client delima

 
JeffreyG
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Jan 27, 2009 19:05 |  #16

Sledhed wrote in post #7200571 (external link)
I don't think you have a delimma at all, if she doesn't want to pay for them she doesn't get the files. If a customer asks for the original jpegs (I very rarely shoot RAW) and is willing to pay my price, they can have them.

Exactly. This will I think become the model for a lot of professional photography going forward.

In the film era, most professional (non-publishing related) photography sales were print driven. A lot of people are trying to hold on to this model.

Now clients want full resolution digital images to use for all sorts of end purposes. Instead of fighting it, use it. Figure out the most you are likely to be able to sell the prints to the client for and subtract out the cost of the printing. Now double that figure and you have a reasonable price for what amounts to selling the negatives.

It's win-win. You get more revenue per job shot and the client gets broader use.


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AndreaBFS
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Jan 27, 2009 22:38 |  #17

Whatever you do in this situation, after you've decided how to handle this, go back to your policies and pricing and address the issue there so that you don't end up in the same position in the future. If you know you need to make X number of dollars before you'll sell digital files, make them contingent on a minimum print purchase, set a per-file price if you want, etc... just make sure that you create a policy that you can refer to later.




  
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FocalPrincess
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Jan 28, 2009 07:55 |  #18

Stick with your policy.


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ErrolEPhotography
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Jan 28, 2009 08:43 |  #19

do you guys have any policies that you refer from? Everyone I want to thank you so much on this. Photographers and information people like you really bring the joy of photography like how it is suppose to be. thanks for the help so so much.


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ErrolEPhotography
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Jan 28, 2009 08:44 |  #20

Oh and one thing. Digital stuff people and models want your logo off the pic. I will for print but never for digital unless it has to do with a wedding or fam event.


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sapearl
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Jan 28, 2009 18:44 |  #21

Do you mean have we referenced another source for this info, or just come up with our own statement Errol? Following is what's included in my contract:

"Image and data files as well as other photographic materials are the property of the photographer unless otherwise provided for in writing. Prices stated in the brochure “Wedding Photography Packages” are part of this contract. The PURCHASER or REPRESENTATIVE has read this entire contract and agrees to its terms."

There is no specific mention of the data files being available for sale. Of course almost anything can be negotiable. If somebody really wants to buy my high rez JPG's, they can have the disk for $500 in addition to the cost of the album package.

Btw Errol, I may have missed it but did she say she wanted the full rez JPG's or RAW files? - Stu

- Stu

ErrolEPhotography wrote in post #7204703 (external link)
do you guys have any policies that you refer from? Everyone I want to thank you so much on this. Photographers and information people like you really bring the joy of photography like how it is suppose to be. thanks for the help so so much.


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JeffreyG
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Jan 28, 2009 18:59 |  #22

Just to amplify, I would not give out RAW files. I'd be willing to sell TIFF or JPEGs though I suppose.

I was thinking on this further and there are still potholes. The big issue is that (as most people here on POTN know) the appropriate output handling of a photo is determined by the expected display. So if the client shows an image you sized and sharpened for prints on the web it won't look its best.

Worse is trusting a client to get a good print on their own. I shot a few portraits of my nephews for fun. I threw them on Flickr to let my sister print them. On the phone I had to walk her through the download. "No, don't download the LARGE file that is default, you gotta download ORIGINAL or the file will be tiny.....yes dear, LARGE = tiny and ORIGINAL = Large". Then she sent them to Costco for prints. Thankfully I talked to her again. "You did check the box at the bottom that says 'upload full resolution for large prints' right? No? Oh, well the Costco default assumes you are making 4x6 prints and it saves you time by gutting your upload. Better start over."

This is not a show stopper, but one honestly might need to give a digital image handling guide out with sold image files.


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ErrolEPhotography
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Jan 28, 2009 20:24 |  #23

all my jpegs. but i shoot raw. but still i am in control of my edits and i don't want nothing going out there that can have my name on it


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sapearl
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Jan 28, 2009 21:20 |  #24

Well, the choices are pretty clear then.

Sledhead, sspellman, Jeff and I vote that you offer her the JPG's for something in the area of $500. That's a good round figure that people use locally, and I've seen it discussed on POTN. That should nicely cover potential future sales that you would possibly miss. This way you are not refusing service, but giving her the choice.

Or...... you can stick to your guns of the contract and not sell. But if you do this, honestly explain to her why you don't want to sell, citing reasons we've discussed here.;)

ErrolEPhotography wrote in post #7209271 (external link)
all my jpegs. but i shoot raw. but still i am in control of my edits and i don't want nothing going out there that can have my name on it


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PMCphotography
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Sep 09, 2009 22:07 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #25

I have an option in my portrait/family packages to purchase the files. I usually shoot in JPEG. If they want the files, i give them in two seperate folders- retouched and "outtakes."

Honestly? Most people don't want to take the unedited files and sit in front of photoshop retouching pimples on themselves. That's why they are hiring us!

I also resize them so they can post them on facebook/etc. with my contact info at the bottom. I want them advertising to their hundreds of friends who have never heard of me.


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sapearl
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Sep 10, 2009 05:38 |  #26

What do you mean by "outtakes.?"

PMCphotography wrote in post #8615756 (external link)
I have an option in my portrait/family packages to purchase the files. I usually shoot in JPEG. If they want the files, i give them in two seperate folders- retouched and "outtakes.".......


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Ray ­ Marrero
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Sep 11, 2009 00:18 |  #27

I once had someone ask me to photograph a sweet 16 at a church and reception, about 6-7 hours total. They just wanted the full res jpegs, no edits, no prints. They were goining to print themselves.

After thinking about it, I said sure, my price is $900. They had a heart attack and just wanted to pay me $300.

The poor girl didn't have a photographer at her Sweet 16.

Oh well.....


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aaronmd
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Sep 11, 2009 11:08 |  #28

Some clients have crazy expectations. At times it can be funny and at other times it is down right frightening.

I would never ever ever turn over raw unedited images to a client for any amount of money. Our reputations are strongly based on our finished products and letting completely raw images go out there with our name associated to them could be a dangerous game to play. Now, f a client only wanted color and exposure corrected images with no special processing performed I would consider that for the right price. But since portrait sales are my business money maker it isn't going to be cheap.


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amfoto1
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Sep 11, 2009 13:15 |  #29

I offer folks to buy edited jpegs or tiffs from me, for personal use only: $18 per image, on a disk or as a download. I work with them as to what they need (resolution, color space, etc.). They are licensed to make prints for personal use, put the images up on personal web sites or social networking pages, make a screensaver or wallpaper for their computer, etc. Derivative work from the image for personal use is allowable, but does not vacate my copyright in any way.

Let's see... $18 times 200 works out to about $3600, doesn't it?

I retain all rights to all images. The image files they purchase are not licensed for any commercial use, nor is any transfer of usage licensing to any third party permitted - to include editorial usage, advertising, stock sales, etc. - without additional written agreement from me.

Occasionally when they want one I will simply give a good customer a disk or send an email attachment with small, low resolution files, generally watermarked, for use on Facebook, personal websites, etc. I'm about to implement something in my online galleries that freely allows people to take a watermarked thumbnail for use on Facebook, but it will serve as a link back to my images so is essentially free advertising for me. There's simply not much fighting that, so might as well get some benefit from it.

In original poster's situation, I think the client is asking way too much. If she wanted to pick out and pay for 10 or 20 images from the shoot, after editing and post processing by or under the supervision of the photographer, that would be different.


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siriusdogstar
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Sep 11, 2009 13:40 |  #30

Suggest (same as others here have) having a frank discussion with client why they want originals. Some folks are understandably nervous about having their photo posted all over the internet without their permission -- this one's easy, just explain a model release is required. Others simply want to print and/or post and/or display on their own -- simply explain photographers own all rights to their images, if (or not, why) you are willing to transfer those rights, etc.. Imagination goes wild with possibilities; most likely, however, their reason is simple and innocuous.




  
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