Setup help

I need some help setting up some strobes/flashes to imitate the lighting seen in this picture:

http://farm4.static.fl​ickr.com …20060455_425ce2​1d77_o.jpg

My attempt

I attempted this but the face is quite dark - like almost no data dark.
I used hotshoe flashes at like 1/2-1/4 power, f/22 aperture to knock out the background. My attempts were...ugly:

First:
Second:
EXIFs:
FIRST: f/20, ISO 1600, 1/320th, Pocket Wizards triggering two flashes: one camera right, one camera left (across the pool). Both at 1/2-1/16th power, I don't remember.

SECOND: f/22, ISO 1600, 1/250, Pocket Wizards triggering two flashes: one camera right, one behind subject for rim.

I think I was limited by strobe power & coverage...? I mean, the left flash just wasn't doing what I wanted it to....

Help
I'm buying 4-5 Alienbee B400s in the next week, along with softboxes, and maybe even a beauty dish. Would they work better?

How can I darken the background without using such a large aperture? ND filter, I presume?

This was just a scouting attempt. When I actually do this, how does the following setup sound:

1 strobe camera right, into beauty dish, 3-4 feet away from subject.
1 strobe camera right, facing into water for lighting the face.
1 strobe camera left on boom over water, for left rim.
1 strobe behind subject/behind right for right rim.

Thoughts? Will the beauty dish work well?

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How much light is reflected off the water? The water surface will be a mirror at the correct angle.

I think I might use a fisheye on my crop body for that slightly wider look? I used a 28-135 on a 40D for my shots.

Not sure 40Dude, but there definitely NEEDS to be more light coming into the face.

It looks like there were at least three flashes used. One from the front right of the swimmer, one from the rear left and one from the rear right.
Also, with the water drop freezing in the air, I would guess it's done with HSS but am not sure.

So any help? Like specific help...?

dshankar wrote in post #7222266
So any help? Like specific help...?

I thought by pointing out where the lights were located would help. Maybe you should try again with the setup and post picture again for people to chime in.
Sorry, I really can't tell you how exactly it was done as I can only guess based on where the lights were.

There is motion blurr with the water droplets so I bet its only with 1/200 if that.

f22 with a hotshoe on half power just isnt going to cut it without dropping your SS significantly. The background is probably black in the example picture because of low/no ambient light levels, not because of a tiny aperture.

It can be done with hotshoe flashes but will require more expertise. With your studio strobes, you should be able to pound the swimmer with more than enough light. Like has been said, 3 strobes were used (one 45 degrees to the swimmers right, one wide straight on his side facing the camera/high than the swimmer slightly, and the 3rds position is obvious).

Its impossible to give specific settings for this shot for you to use. You just need to play around with your settings. Judging by your post, I don't think you have enough knowledge of how lighting works yet. Take a look on the strobist.com site and read up on how to make background black with strobes (no ND filters or anything like that is even remotely necessary). You can take a single high power strobe and light a person with a black background in the 12' o'clock sun. Just need to know what you are doing to get it done.

edit:
read this also for a good example of how you can make a white background black with ONLY knowledge of how lights work (read all 5 parts of the tutorial for a better understanding)
http://www.zarias.com/​?p=71

johnms88 wrote in post #7229024
There is motion blurr with the water droplets so I bet its only with 1/200 if that.

f22 with a hotshoe on half power just isnt going to cut it without dropping your SS significantly. The background is probably black in the example picture because of low/no ambient light levels, not because of a tiny aperture.

It can be done with hotshoe flashes but will require more expertise. With your studio strobes, you should be able to pound the swimmer with more than enough light. Like has been said, 3 strobes were used (one 45 degrees to the swimmers right, one wide straight on his side facing the camera/high than the swimmer slightly, and the 3rds position is obvious).

Its impossible to give specific settings for this shot for you to use. You just need to play around with your settings. Judging by your post, I don't think you have enough knowledge of how lighting works yet. Take a look on the strobist.com site and read up on how to make background black with strobes (no ND filters or anything like that is even remotely necessary). You can take a single high power strobe and light a person with a black background in the 12' o'clock sun. Just need to know what you are doing to get it done.

edit:
read this also for a good example of how you can make a white background black with ONLY knowledge of how lights work (read all 5 parts of the tutorial for a better understanding)
http://www.zarias.com/​?p=71

I've actually read and understood all of that, and done a lot of studio & on location strobing.

For some ODD reason, I cannot replicate that shot, perhaps because I only had 5 minutes to make this shot work.

I actually don't even know why I posted this thread anymore, seeing how I need more strobes (at least 3). I actually also figured out placement (see my first post), so I don't even know what I was expecting from this post! Basically this was a post after a frustrating shoot, apologies! I'll figure it out..

In order to knock the background out and still get nice bokeh, I'm pretty much dead certain that an ND filter was used...

Unless those are lens flares and not bokeh!? Hmm..

I just analyzed my test shots, and I realized my camera left flash was zoomed into the base of the diving board, and not on where the person would be. Therefore, I was not getting any light from the left side/on his face...

SILLY ME!

dshankar wrote in post #7229358
Unless those are lens flares and not bokeh!? Hmm..

Not to sound rude but what are you talking about?

Those are water droplets on the lens/lens filter. Only strobe thats visible is the one on the diving board. Like was said, only 3 strobes were most likely used and no ND filter.

http://www.zarias.com/​?p=256

no ND filter here and that's outside during the day. Tell me an ND filter is needed to get a dark swimming pool dark.

johnms88 wrote in post #7229403
Not to sound rude but what are you talking about?

Those are water droplets on the lens/lens filter. Only strobe thats visible is the one on the diving board. Like was said, only 3 strobes were most likely used and no ND filter.

http://www.zarias.com/​?p=256

no ND filter here and that's outside during the day. Tell me an ND filter is needed to get a dark swimming pool dark.

How can I possibly get a pool DARKER, when I have my camera at 1/250th (darkest ambient), with f/22 (one of my lens' minimum aperture)?

edit: My issue is bad strobe placement so I was unintentionally lighting up some of the pool, I think.

Ummmmmmm...how about dont shoot at iso 1600? Lol

johnms88 wrote in post #7229437
Ummmmmmm...how about dont shoot at iso 1600? Lol

This is embarrassing...


I guess I deserve that john...my lame excuse is that I was shooting basketball right before that, and I needed to crank to 1600.

I think this thread needs to be closed, this is embarrassing!!

Haha, we have all done it before. shoot it at 400 and you will see a huge difference.