PW and RX Skyport integration, the best of both world?

*** This thread is a spin off from this thread: Pocket wizard or not ***

TMR Design wrote in post #7303906
I was never bothered by the size of the PW's but there have been times that I wished it was a bit smaller. When I actually saw a Skyport transmitter I was blown away. Unfortunately I'm stubborn about the seamless integration of PW and Sekonic meters and don't like using cordless auto reset or using a sync cord to add the Skyport transmitter as an appendage to the light meter. I think that if it weren't for that I would have bought into Skyports already. I've given thought to integrating the PW's and Skyports to have the best of both worlds, which would work nicely but the redundancy is not worth the expense for me.

I'm sure that if you ever decide to upgrade your strobes to the RX series strobes, you'll be using the Skyports even if it's only for monitoring and controlling the different strobes from one central location. I'm been giving some thought to ways of seamlessly integrating the Skyports and the PWs with the least amount of dedundancy, and without the need to use the Cordless Auto Reset mode on the light meter. I have a few ideas in mind and when time allows, I'll try to see which is the most optimal.

PacAce wrote in post #7304028
I'm sure that if you ever decide to upgrade your strobes to the RX series strobes, you'll be using the Skyports even if it's only for monitoring and controlling the different strobes from one central location. I'm been giving some thought to ways of seamlessly integrating the Skyports and the PWs with the least amount of dedundancy, and without the need to use the Cordless Auto Reset mode on the light meter. I have a few ideas in mind and when time allows, I'll try to see which is the most optimal.

Unless I'm missing something there's only one way to do it. You have a Pocket Wizard and a Skyport on each strobe with the sync output of each feeding a 'Y' connector with the merge feeding the sync in of the strobe. Doing this means that you lose Quad Triggering from the Sekonic meter (assuming you're using Multi Max PW's) as well as the ability to enable or disable individual strobes from either system. If there was a 'thru' port of some sort you could connect them in series but I don't think either system has that functionality.

Can you think of another way Leo?

TMR Design wrote in post #7304142
Unless I'm missing something there's only one way to do it. You have a Pocket Wizard and a Skyport on each strobe with the sync output of each feeding a 'Y' connector with the merge feeding the sync in of the strobe. Doing this means that you lose Quad Triggering from the Sekonic meter (assuming you're using Multi Max PW's) as well as the ability to enable or disable individual strobes from either system. If there was a 'thru' port of some sort you could connect them in series but I don't think either system has that functionality.

Can you think of another way Leo?

Let's look at it from a different angle. If I already have the PW triggers, why would I want to go out and buy the Skyports? Obviously not so I can trigger the Elinchrom strobes because I can already do that with the PW units. So, the reason I'd want the RX Skyports is so that I can monitor and control, but not necessarily trigger, the RX strobes from a centralized location. Thinking of it this way, I'm not really duplicating my triggering system but, instead, getting a whole new telemetry system and, of course, I'd have to be willing to pay for it.

But the thing is, if I have the Skyports, then why would I want to keep the PW units? The answer, as you said, is so that I can use my Sekonic light meter and hopefully without needing to use the meter in Cordless Auto Reset mode.

The easiest would to integrate both the PW units and the Skyport units is, as you said above, to have each strobe connected to a Skyport and a PW. And that's easy enough to do with the RX strobes because each strobe has a socket to plug the RX Skyport into. And each strobe also has a separate sync port to plug the PW receiver into. So no "Y" adapter would be required. Since I already have the PW units, why wouldn't I not want to plug both the PW unit and the Skyport unit into each strobe? Not using either one is not going to save me any money anyway since both units are paid for already. I hope that made sense.

PacAce wrote in post #7304368
Let's look at it from a different angle. If I already have the PW triggers, why would I want to go out and buy the Skyports? Obviously not so I can trigger the Elinchrom strobes because I can already do that with the PW units. So, the reason I'd want the RX Skyports is so that I can monitor and control, but not necessarily trigger, the RX strobes from a centralized location. Thinking of it this way, I'm not really duplicating my triggering system but, instead, getting a whole new telemetry system and, of course, I'd have to be willing to pay for it.

But the thing is, if I have the Skyports, then why would I want to keep the PW units? The answer, as you said, is so that I can use my Sekonic light meter and hopefully without needing to use the meter in Cordless Auto Reset mode.

The easiest would to integrate both the PW units and the Skyport units is, as you said above, to have each strobe connected to a Skyport and a PW. And that's easy enough to do with the RX strobes because each strobe has a socket to plug the RX Skyport into. And each strobe also has a separate sync port to plug the PW receiver into. So no "Y" adapter would be required. Since I already have the PW units, why wouldn't I not want to plug both the PW unit and the Skyport unit into each strobe? Not using either one is not going to save me any money anyway since both units are paid for already. I hope that made sense.

I assume you're tested or it's documented that you can use both methods to sync at the same time? I was thinking that in the case of the RX it's one or the other, not both. Can you confirm that?

The only reason I was describing it as I did was because I don't have RX's and it would be the method to use if I wanted to get the PW off the camera and have a Skyport. It's clearly redundant and a bit unnecessary but it would facilitate triggering the strobes via Skyports from the camera, and triggering the strobes via Sekonic meter.

TMR Design wrote in post #7304432
I assume you're tested or it's documented that you can use both methods to sync at the same time? I was thinking that in the case of the RX it's one or the other, not both. Can you confirm that?

The only reason I was describing it as I did was because I don't have RX's and it would be the method to use if I wanted to get the PW off the camera and have a Skyport. It's clearly redundant and a bit unnecessary but it would facilitate triggering the strobes via Skyports from the camera, and triggering the strobes via Sekonic meter.

Yes, you can have both the PW unit and the RX Skyport plugged in at the same time and you can use either one to trigger the strobe. My RX Skyports are always plugged into the 600RX strobes. And I have triggered the strobes with my meter with PW units plugged into the strobes (with the RX Skyports still plugged in). I've also tested triggering the strobes alternating between the PW Tx and the Skyport Tx units.

When you say "sync at the same time", did you mean triggering the strobe with both the Skyport Tx unit and the PW Tx unit at the same time? I haven't tried triggering both Tx units at the same time but I can't imagine the strobes not firing in this way, either. To be honest, I can't think of any reason why I'd want both Tx units going off at the same time to trigger the same strobe.

PacAce wrote in post #7304980
Yes, you can have both the PW unit and the RX Skyport plugged in at the same time and you can use either one to trigger the strobe. My RX Skyports are always plugged into the 600RX strobes. And I have triggered the strobes with my meter with PW units plugged into the strobes (with the RX Skyports still plugged in). I've also tested triggering the strobes alternating between the PW Tx and the Skyport Tx units.

When you say "sync at the same time", did you mean triggering the strobe with both the Skyport Tx unit and the PW Tx unit at the same time? I haven't tried triggering both Tx units at the same time but I can't imagine the strobes not firing in this way, either. To be honest, I can't think of any reason why I'd want both Tx units going off at the same time to trigger the same strobe.

Sorry Leo. Poor choice of words. I didn't mean "at the same time". I meant having both plugged in and having the ability to use either one without making any changes to wiring or connections.

This thread is oh so confusing but I have a feeling that it will all make sense to me one day soon as I am currently in the market for some elinchrom lights... Just unsure of which to get

TMR Design wrote in post #7304432
I assume you're tested or it's documented that you can use both methods to sync at the same time? I was thinking that in the case of the RX it's one or the other, not both. Can you confirm that?

The only reason I was describing it as I did was because I don't have RX's and it would be the method to use if I wanted to get the PW off the camera and have a Skyport. It's clearly redundant and a bit unnecessary but it would facilitate triggering the strobes via Skyports from the camera, and triggering the strobes via Sekonic meter.

Oops. Forgot to comment on the last paragraph. As I see it, there would really be no reason to trigger the strobes with the Skyport Tx because that can be done just as well with a PW unit (unless size is the issue). This way, if using PW MultiMax units, you can take advantage of all the MM features (i.e. quad triggering, multi-pop, etc.). If you need to control the light output of the RX strobes, you can do that from the computer, assuming you are using the Skyport software, or with the Skyport Tx in your hand (syncing would not be required for this).

Again, to reiterate, the primary reason for the RX Skyport units when PW units are available is for the controlling of the strobes from a centralized location, not for triggering. (If the only reason for the Skyports were for triggering, then I wouldn't even bother with them and just stick with the PWs.) Think big. You have the Octa 74" with an RX strobe inside. How are you going to adjust its settings? You're using one or two RX strobes as kick light on a boom overhead. How are you going to adjust those lights from the ground?

PacAce wrote in post #7307578
Oops. Forgot to comment on the last paragraph. As I see it, there would really be no reason to trigger the strobes with the Skyport Tx because that can be done just as well with a PW unit (unless size is the issue). This way, if using PW MultiMax units, you can take advantage of all the MM features (i.e. quad triggering, multi-pop, etc.). If you need to control the light output of the RX strobes, you can do that from the computer, assuming you are using the Skyport software, or with the Skyport Tx in your hand (syncing would not be required for this).

Again, to reiterate, the primary reason for the RX Skyport units when PW units are available is for the controlling of the strobes from a centralized location, not for triggering. (If the only reason for the Skyports were for triggering, then I wouldn't even bother with them and just stick with the PWs.) Think big. You have the Octa 74" with an RX strobe inside. How are you going to adjust its settings? You're using one or two RX strobes as kick light on a boom overhead. How are you going to adjust those lights from the ground?

Yes Leo. The only reason would be to get the large PW off the camera and replace it with a Skyport transmitter. I don't have a need to use selective quad triggering from my camera but I do from the meter. I'm not saying I'm going to do this but was just working through the logic and procedure. This all stemmed from wanting to use a Skyport on the camera but still have triggering and quad triggering from the meter without using cordless auto-reset.

RX's sound nice and I would love to take advantage of the remote power control but the jump in cost just can't be justified at this time. I have a small studio and as much as I don't care for using my step stool to adjust a light up on a boom, I don't have a problem with it and my four 400BX's are a perfect kit for me. I can't see paying hundreds more per strobe for that feature. Aside from that the RX doesn't offer me anything that I don't have in my BX. Performance, while it might be slightly better, is negligible and won't help me create better images. I prefer to worry about the things that will really make a difference in my work. The 30 seconds it takes me to adjust a strobe on a boom doesn't phase me and my clients never feel it. I simply can't justify the massive price jump to RX's at this time. When the clients are paying the bill that will be the time.

And that brings us back to square one (see post #1). If you do not have RX strobes in the studio or don't plan on upgrading to them any time soon, then there really is no reason to be using the Skyports if you already have the PW Multimax units. The only thing the Universal Skyport, which is what you'd have to use with the BX strobes, gives you is triggering and zone triggering and you already have with the PW Multimax units. And, of course, the smaller size which the PW doesn't have. But that may change soon, right (maybe)?

That's another thing that has kept me from seriously considering Skyports. I'm waiting to see what actually happens in the world of Pocket Wizards.

quad triggering????

Would either of you mind sharing specifically what it is about the PW features that makes a big difference for you in a practical sense - I haven't the foggiest what quad triggering multi-pop, e.t.c. are, and I'm sure others who haven't used pocket wizards in the last few years are in the same boat.

Selective quad triggering is found in Pocket Wizard MultiMax's and in the Sekonic light meters with the Pocket Wizard radio transmitter module.

It gives you the ability to place a Multi Max in a group (A, B, C, D) and then control that group from another Multi Max or Sekonic light meter.

If you have a large studio with multiple setups and want to enable or disable strobes that can be done from the camera and/or light meter. If you have lights in shooting location 1 and lights in shooting location 2 that are setup and ready to go but while shooting in location 1 you don't want the lights in location 2 to fire you can just disable that group of lights in location 2.

A more common application would be for metering individual strobes.

If you place your main light in group A and fill in group B and want to meter your main with your fill light not firing then you can quickly disable the fill light right from the meter. You don't have to go to the strobe and turn it off or switch off the PW at that strobe. Then, when you want to meter the fill light alone you just disable the main light and enable the fill.

TMR Design wrote in post #7313719
Selective quad triggering is found in Pocket Wizard MultiMax's and in the Sekonic light meters with the Pocket Wizard radio transmitter module.

It gives you the ability to place a Multi Max in a group (A, B, C, D) and then control that group from another Multi Max or Sekonic light meter.

If you have a large studio with multiple setups and want to enable or disable strobes that can be done from the camera and/or light meter. If you have lights in shooting location 1 and lights in shooting location 2 that are setup and ready to go but while shooting in location 1 you don't want the lights in location 2 to fire you can just disable that group of lights in location 2.

A more common application would be for metering individual strobes.

If you place your main light in group A and fill in group B and want to meter your main with your fill light not firing then you can quickly disable the fill light right from the meter. You don't have to go to the strobe and turn it off or switch off the PW at that strobe. Then, when you want to meter the fill light alone you just disable the main light and enable the fill.

OK thanks, I get you now.

I have to say though, it doesn't sound like there's anything there that can't be achieved with the skyports.

I use groups to meter my RXs individually from a central location - with the added bonus that I can also press plus or minus after metering to adjust them and instantly re-meter. When I have lights active on more than one set, I just set them to different frequencies with the middle 3 switches - that way I can switch between sets and still retain the group settings I'm familiar with (group 1 for key, 2 for fill, 3 for accent, e.t.c.).