Alien Bees

If anyone is interested, I'm selling my Alien Bees...

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=648120

Robert finally convinced me to go the Elinchrom route.

Alex_c70 wrote in post #7344723
If anyone is interested, I'm selling my Alien Bees...

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=648120

Robert finally convinced me to go the Elinchrom route.

I don't think you're going to regret it for a minute. I've never seen anyone move from Bees to Elinchrom that had second thoughts or buyers remorse. It's an eye opener and puts all the chatter and discussion in perspective.

I've never said that people that shoot with Bees aren't taking wonderful images or that they can't sell them or even that you can tell from looking at them that they were shot with Bees. It's not about that.

With Elinchrom, there are differences in design, ergonomics and usage, the modifiers are far superior and made from better materials, consistency of power output and color are incredible and when critical exposure really matters you'll see the difference right away. Precise control over exposure is something you don't appreciate until you have the ability.

The nuances of micro-contrast and definition in highlight and shadow are something you have to look for sometimes but once you see it you have an "a ha" moment.

Again, Bees work well, the images produced are fine and clearly there are many satisfied owners, but there is a difference and as I said, it's one that has to be experienced to understand rather than debating about it within online forums.

Having said all that... congratulations Alex!

Thanks Robert!

I was initially thinking of the D-Lite2 or D-Lite4, but now find myself on the fence between the BX or RX series. I like idea of remote control with the RXs, but haven't ever had this convenience. Do you think this, alone, justifies the additional cost over the BXs? IOW, do you think there would be a significant time savings that would pay for the price difference, or do you not change strobe settings all that much in the studio?

TMR Design wrote in post #7345023
I don't think you're going to regret it for a minute. I've never seen anyone move from Bees to Elinchrom that had second thoughts or buyers remorse. It's an eye opener and puts all the chatter and discussion in perspective.

I've never said that people that shoot with Bees aren't taking wonderful images or that they can't sell them or even that you can tell from looking at them that they were shot with Bees. It's not about that.

With Elinchrom, there are differences in design, ergonomics and usage, the modifiers are far superior and made from better materials, consistency of power output and color are incredible and when critical exposure really matters you'll see the difference right away. Precise control over exposure is something you don't appreciate until you have the ability.

The nuances of micro-contrast and definition in highlight and shadow are something you have to look for sometimes but once you see it you have an "a ha" moment.

Again, Bees work well, the images produced are fine and clearly there are many satisfied owners, but there is a difference and as I said, it's one that has to be experienced to understand rather than debating about it within online forums.

Having said all that... congratulations Alex!

Hey Alex,

Everyone has their own take on what is worth it and what justifies the expense. I love cool features, gizmo's and gadgets but I am more concerned about creating great lighting and pushing the shutter button more than I am about expensive features that take cash away from other important areas of the studio or kit.

For me, I simply can't justify the cost of RX's over BX's. It was important for me to have a 4 light kit, which I could never do if I were to buy RX's. I have a relatively small studio and as much as I would love to adjust my hair light from a remote location on the ground, I really don't mind the 30 seconds it takes to step up on a stool and make the adjustment. It may not be as convenient but it doesn't bum me out or bother me whatsoever.

In terms of performance and quality of light you'll never see a difference between the BX and RX. The modifiers will make more of a difference than the RX strobe will. There's a huge jump in price from BX to RX and by saving that money I was able to get four BX's and lots of extras like a 53" Octa, a pair of 135 degree wide angle reflectors, deflectors to use in those reflectors, strip lights or any other modifier, a beauty dish with a grid and some other assorted items. That goes a long way for me and I appreciate those things more than I would the remote capability and extra stop of adjustment from the RX. Those things matter very little when you're in control of your light.

Also, even though I never want to be governed by the lights, it's very easy for me to set a hair light and reverse engineer the other lights so that I don't have to touch the level on my hair light. When I'm shooting at smaller apertures it doesn't matter to me whether I'm shooting at f/8, f/9, f/10 or f/11. Not always, but most of the time.

It was important for me to have a four light kit and all those extras and I'm in heaven with the gear I have in my studio. Would I like RX's? Sure. Would I like a Ranger? Sure. But I'm more interested in taking photographs and having very precise control over that light through the use of an extensive modifier collection. My clients don't think twice if I have to step up on a stool, which I have strategically placed near the hair light's light stand.

I think you get the idea. For what it's worth, if you're already thinking beyond D-Lite's then keep thinking that way. They are superb for what they are but as I'm sure you've seen, they do have shortcomings, whereas the BX or RX strobes are killer and don't have the problems with build quality. You can't go wrong with BX's and if you've got deep enough pockets the RX's rock, but they do come with a significant price tag.

Robert,

I think I'm now leaning toward the BXs, particularly after you mentioned "reverse engineering" the the lights based on the output from the hair light. The pockets are just deep enough, but the practical side of me is battling fiercely. The businessman in me just can't justify an additional ~$1,200 (for 4 lights) to save a couple of steps between the key and fill lights.

As much as I hate to ask silly questions, do you know what the difference is between the two kits I linked? I can't, for the life of me, see any except the price and bag -- not enough to justify hundreds of dollars. What's "economy" about the more expensive kit?


http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …yle_400BX_Compl​ete_2.html

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …tyle_400BX_Econ​omy_2.html

The BX wont run off a Vagabond correct? I would be game to step up a bit in lights but I need to be able to run off a battery and inverter and I dont want to lose the ability to sync at 1/320.

Is there a 'have your cake and eat it too' solution that I dont know about? It seems that to get excellent color consistency I lose the ability to have portable power and/or sync speed, while maintaining a decent cost. Ranger system is not an option, that thing is too expensive. I looked at some of the photogenic stuff but the durations seemed very slow and I doubt it will have a decent sync speed.

Alex_c70 wrote in post #7345709
Robert,

As much as I hate to ask silly questions, do you know what the difference is between the two kits I linked? I can't, for the life of me, see any except the price and bag -- not enough to justify hundreds of dollars. What's "economy" about the more expensive kit?


http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …yle_400BX_Compl​ete_2.html

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …tyle_400BX_Econ​omy_2.html

Have been wondering the same thing and the cheaper kit comes with the hardcase

epatt250 wrote in post #7345755
The BX wont run off a Vagabond correct? I would be game to step up a bit in lights but I need to be able to run off a battery and inverter and I dont want to lose the ability to sync at 1/320.

Is there a 'have your cake and eat it too' solution that I dont know about? It seems that to get excellent color consistency I lose the ability to have portable power and/or sync speed, while maintaining a decent cost. Ranger system is not an option, that thing is too expensive. I looked at some of the photogenic stuff but the durations seemed very slow and I doubt it will have a decent sync speed.

If portability is important, then ok, but many don't care or need portable power. It's still a huge jump to RX or Ranger if portability is not important.

TMR Design wrote in post #7346020
If portability is important, then ok, but many don't care or need portable power. It's still a huge jump to RX or Ranger if portability is not important.

I am not trying to argue against the Elinchroms. Will the BX not run on the Ranger, only the RX?

I am asking if there is a solution that you know of that can offer all of the above w/o breaking the bank.

epatt250 wrote in post #7346054
I am not trying to argue against the Elinchroms. Will the BX not run on the Ranger, only the RX?

I am asking if there is a solution that you know of that can offer all of the above w/o breaking the bank.

I didn't think we were arguing

Unfortunately this is a decision that many are up against. If you're buying into the Elinchrom product line then portable power can be a problem unless you're going to use D-Lite's, RX's or the Ranger System.

I still don't understand why the D-Lite 4, which is a multi-voltage 400ws digitally controlled strobe will work with a Tronix and the 400BX, also a multi-voltage 400ws digitally controlled strobe won't work.

It's really unfortunate and I wonder whether the BX is listed as incompatible, not because it's been determined from testing, but perhaps because it hasn't been tested and they don't want to say it's compatible without knowing first hand.

Do you have any experience with the budget photogenics? I know they were in your big consistency test awhile back but I wasn't sure if you really messed with them much.

The AC/DC version looks great for portability but was I correct in seeing they have a long flash duration and that fact would make it likely to need to sync at lower speeds? Do you remember how they were as far as color accuracy at lower settings, and build? I have not seen jack for a decent review of those. Tons of stuff for PCB and Elinchrom but not much for the other players.

The Photogenic StudioMax III were the strobes I tested. They were surprisingly great lights. The 320ws strobe was so consistent in power output and color that is was amazing. They can be powered from AC, Tronix or Vagabond, or from a Quantum turbo or Photogenic battery pack.

For some they're the perfect solution but depending on your needs they may fall short. They modeling lights can be on at full power or off and do not have proportional modeling. If your're shooting on location outdoors it's a complete non-issue but in the studio or inside people' homes, etc. you won't have proportional modeling with multiple strobes. The other problem, also depending on what you shoot is the relatively slow duration. Great for portraiture but not for sports, action or a much movement. You could probably shoot the classic 'model jumping in the air' or a hair flip but any more movement than that and you're probably going to get some motion blur.

If action is not important then the Photogenic StudioMax III analog strobes rock, and at an amazing price to boot.

epatt250 wrote in post #7346054
I am not trying to argue against the Elinchroms. Will the BX not run on the Ranger, only the RX?

I am asking if there is a solution that you know of that can offer all of the above w/o breaking the bank.

The Ranger RX system is a battery pack and Freelite strobe system. The RX in the name does not imply that an RX monolight, like a Digital Style 600RX, can be plugged into the Ranger battery pack because it cannot be, unfortunately.

Hmm good info. That 160w/s version is around $200 too. Cheap enough to try.

Maybe the best solution for me is to stop trying to find one light that fits all of my needs and use 2 that fill their own role. An AB800 even in a decent sized softbox is too much power indoors. I do lots of indoor stuff but its usually away from home and sometimes I dont have an outlet. I end up having to shoot at a way higher aperture than I want to just to stay at 1/8 power then if I use a 3 stop nd gel I have to remove the modeling light bulb and sometimes enough focusing light is an issue. I dont have a jim dandy gel holder like you have that retains the modeling lamp.

The modeling lamp issue is a non issue for me as I usually just use one light on subject and use speedlites for background, rimlight etc. I hardly ever use fill. Even when i do its not hard to figure out what i want.

I could ditch the AB800 and pickup an old WL Ultra 1200 or 1800 for outdoor work when competing with the sun. Still have mucho power, portability and good sync speed, would be shooting higher power so color inconsistency would be a non issue.

Then pickup a photogenic 160w/s unit for indoor work. The only downside would be having to get different speedrings for each. I did some research and based on playing with the Calumet Nova speedring and the PCB speedrings I THINK I can order just the ring for a photogenic and use it on the PCB octabox too.

Do you have any experience with the higher end Photos? Like the Powerlight series? I assume if the budget lights are that accurate the high end ones would be too. What scares me is can you run them on a inverter+battery setup. That powerlight 1250 is 500w/s at $500.

PacAce wrote in post #7346456
The Ranger RX system is a battery pack and Freelite strobe system. The RX in the name does not imply that an RX monolight, like a Digital Style 600RX, can be plugged into the Ranger battery pack because it cannot be, unfortunately.

Oh ok, gotcha. I got confused with the name game.

I did not realize the Ranger setup was "RX", I thought only the monolights were RX, or the BX version.