Add-on for your camera and flash

Hi,

A couple of quick questions for wedding pro (someone with 10+ weddings under belt?).

What do you use as a flash difuser, if any. I see that wedding halls and churches comes with all different types of lighting and different color ceilings so I am assuming everyone uses some type of flash (if allowed). Also, I an seeing that if you point the flash upwards, you get dark shaddows under chins. How do you avoid this?

My other question is related to using protecting filters on lenses. I have heard that a ot of people use filters on their expensive lenses to protect that glass. I have also heard some experts stating that you lose up to 1 stop light and there is no use in using an expensive lense (2.8) if you are going to lose light with filters.

Thanks.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/B+​W-UV-Filter.aspx

Baadil wrote in post #7374499
Hi,

A couple of quick questions for wedding pro (someone with 10+ weddings under belt?).

What do you use as a flash difuser, if any. I see that wedding halls and churches comes with all different types of lighting and different color ceilings so I am assuming everyone uses some type of flash (if allowed). Also, I an seeing that if you point the flash upwards, you get dark shaddows under chins. How do you avoid this?

My other question is related to using protecting filters on lenses. I have heard that a ot of people use filters on their expensive lenses to protect that glass. I have also heard some experts stating that you lose up to 1 stop light and there is no use in using an expensive lense (2.8) if you are going to lose light with filters.

Thanks.

I don't use anything on my flashes. No diffuser, no bounce card, nothing. That's not always the best way to do it, but it is the most efficient way to do it. Why? There's no one diffuser that you can put on your flash and make it work in 80-90% of the situations. A diffuser could be good in 10% of situations where you need to scatter light to help you bounce it. That's mostly what diffusers are for. They don't really work well for direct flash at all. Most of the time, if you can bounce the light, the light is already pretty good enough that you don't really need the diffuser. So I really don't see much point in having a diffuser.

How to get rid of the shadow underneath the chin? Don't bounce straight up. Bounce over your shoulder to the right or left. That way you create directional light as if it's coming from a window . Bouncing the light behind you and to the side is the best option if you have it or if the room is small enough. If not, directly to the side is a good second option. If not that, then bounce it upwards. If you can't bounce at all, then direct flash but drag the shutter.

Something like a lightsphere is good if you're working close (within 15 feet) and there's nothing to bounce off of. But to carry around a lightsphere for that one particular rare situation just isn't worth it to me. I'd rather just use direct flash and drag the shutter and then post process it to make it look better than to have to lug around another piece of equipment. I mean it does work and it works well for that one particular lighting situation... but there are so many lighting situations that it doesn't work well for, that it's just not worth it. This goes for most other light modifiers also.

Baadil wrote in post #7374499
A couple of quick questions for wedding pro (someone with 10+ weddings under belt?).

What do you use as a flash difuser, if any. I see that wedding halls and churches comes with all different types of lighting and different color ceilings so I am assuming everyone uses some type of flash (if allowed). Also, I an seeing that if you point the flash upwards, you get dark shaddows under chins. How do you avoid this?

My other question is related to using protecting filters on lenses. I have heard that a ot of people use filters on their expensive lenses to protect that glass. I have also heard some experts stating that you lose up to 1 stop light and there is no use in using an expensive lense (2.8) if you are going to lose light with filters.

I have a few weddings under my belt. Maybe 50. Maybe 100. No idea.

I very rarely use flash in a church. When I do it's sometimes direct undiffused, sometimes bounced off a ceiling, and I have plans to do a wedding in a very dark church with two off camera lights, probably diffused with umbrellas.

I don't use filters, and i've not yet damaged the front element of a lens. UV filters don't lose light, it goes straight through since it's glass, unless you paint it. I wouldn't recommend painting it.

randplaty wrote in post #7378385
I don't use anything on my flashes. No diffuser, no bounce card, nothing. That's not always the best way to do it, but it is the most efficient way to do it. Why? There's no one diffuser that you can put on your flash and make it work in 80-90% of the situations. A diffuser could be good in 10% of situations where you need to scatter light to help you bounce it. That's mostly what diffusers are for. They don't really work well for direct flash at all. Most of the time, if you can bounce the light, the light is already pretty good enough that you don't really need the diffuser. So I really don't see much point in having a diffuser.

How to get rid of the shadow underneath the chin? Don't bounce straight up. Bounce over your shoulder to the right or left. That way you create directional light as if it's coming from a window . Bouncing the light behind you and to the side is the best option if you have it or if the room is small enough. If not, directly to the side is a good second option. If not that, then bounce it upwards. If you can't bounce at all, then direct flash but drag the shutter.

Something like a lightsphere is good if you're working close (within 15 feet) and there's nothing to bounce off of. But to carry around a lightsphere for that one particular rare situation just isn't worth it to me. I'd rather just use direct flash and drag the shutter and then post process it to make it look better than to have to lug around another piece of equipment. I mean it does work and it works well for that one particular lighting situation... but there are so many lighting situations that it doesn't work well for, that it's just not worth it. This goes for most other light modifiers also.

Thank you for your detailed reply. I do have another question after your reply though. I have been experimenting with various flash positions and if I bounce it of off side wall, I seem to get hard shaddows on the side. Also, when you drag your shutter, how slow do you go for people?

tim wrote in post #7378615
I have a few weddings under my belt. Maybe 50. Maybe 100. No idea.

I very rarely use flash in a church. When I do it's sometimes direct undiffused, sometimes bounced off a ceiling, and I have plans to do a wedding in a very dark church with two off camera lights, probably diffused with umbrellas.

I don't use filters, and i've not yet damaged the front element of a lens. UV filters don't lose light, it goes straight through since it's glass, unless you paint it. I wouldn't recommend painting it.

Thanks Tim. Always a pleasure getting your reply. As I mentioned in another reply in this thread, I have been experimenting to learn using flash properly, I came accross an issue last night.

Setting includes a model watching TV (My wife, just watching TV, not modeling) with an open door on her side where dark hallway is visible. I am sitting on her other side looking towards the hallway. Flash is set to direct and camera is on M (2.8, 1/125, ISO100, 17-55 2.8). If I am at 17mm wide, flash lasers go on my wife and exposure is dark with she being in the hot spot. Hallway in the background is very dark. If I zoom in where flash laser is now in the hallway and my wife is out of the view finder, whole image brightens up with nothing in dark.

If I understand this correctly, laser in the flash is telling it how far the subject is and based on that ettl is setting the intensity of the flash and telling the camera how to expose it.

My questions is, if you are in a single environment (such as a wedding hall) and you set your camera to M with proper exposure setting for the lighting, how do you expose proper background without having check and fiddle with a lot of settings every time you zoom in or out. If you ask me, lighting hasn't changed in the room, camera settings are still the same, and simply zooming shouldn't change the exposure that much when my lens is 17-55 2.8 IS.

What am I missing here?
Thanks.

(Yes, my wife was upset for me not letting her watch TV in peace)

The red light in the flash isn't a laser, it's just red diodes to help the camera focus. It has no other function.

Background exposure isn't affected by focal length when you zoom with a constant aperture lens like the 17-55, but since flash evaluates the scene based on what it sees that will change things.

tim wrote in post #7378793
The red light in the flash isn't a laser, it's just red diodes to help the camera focus. It has no other function.

Background exposure isn't affected by focal length when you zoom with a constant aperture lens like the 17-55, but since flash evaluates the scene based on what it sees that will change things.

So does that mean you have to check with every image if you created a hotspot and/or properly exposes background?

Thanks.

Like I said your background exposure doesn't vary if you're in manual mode. The rest of your post I found confusing and couldn't follow. I don't know what you mean by hot spot.

tim wrote in post #7378883
Like I said your background exposure doesn't vary if you're in manual mode. The rest of your post I found confusing and couldn't follow. I don't know what you mean by hot spot.

I am sorry if I have confused you a bit. Here are a couple of images to look at the difference. The only thing different between these images is the fact that I moved the camera a bit. In the first image focus beam from the flash was hitting my wife while on the second one it was hitting the staircase. Everything else is same but one image is much bighter than the other one. I would like to have a setting where all my images in one particular lighting situation are of same exposure.

The one on the left has more of the pink top, the light color has caused the flash to underexpose. I think this is the culprit. The whole image is lit by flash, ambient exposure is irrelevant.

The other thing is the reflective paint on the stairs. Any time you have anything reflective in the frame ETTL will be confused and will underexpose. Change your angle.

tim wrote in post #7379131
The one on the left has more of the pink top, the light color has caused the flash to underexpose. I think this is the culprit. The whole image is lit by flash, ambient exposure is irrelevant.

The other thing is the reflective paint on the stairs. Any time you have anything reflective in the frame ETTL will be confused and will underexpose. Change your angle.

Thank you.

I believe that E-TTL flash metering is always centre spot or at least centre weighted. So whatever is in the centre of your viewfinder when you fire the camera & flash...is what the camera will use to meter for the flash. If it's a bright subject, you may end up with everything else being too dark. If it's a dark subject, you will get more flash exposure.
So even with the camera in manual and using the same settings...you may get wildly different results from one shot to the next...based on what that flash is metering off of.
You could put your flash into manual mode as well...then you will get consistent results...but you will need to to determine the right power level somehow.

Using E-TLL isn't all that unpredictable though...so as long as you know what it's metering off of...you can compensate for it.

My typical method for shooting with flash is to have the camera in manual, the flash in E-TTL and I use FEC (flash exposure compensation) to fine tune the exposure.

Baadil wrote in post #7374499
Hi,

A couple of quick questions for wedding pro (someone with 10+ weddings under belt?).

I'm not yet qualified to answer, sorry!

i have more then 10 weddings under my belt, hmm more like 10k lol but i use a flash that has built in fill flash (metz 60ct-4). so i aim the main light up (with the built in diffuser down) and the fill flash on. i get best of both worlds! (dont i sound like Hannah montana?)
sometimes ill even have another flash on my cameras hot shoe and use that as my fill light and bounce the metz off roof. get a bit more distance that way.