Very Long!! Need Opinions.

snyderman wrote in post #7495783
I hear the 'bring a gift for the birthday child and leave the camera at home.' If you REALLY don't want to take any pics, leave the camera at home. If you feel like making someone else's day, bring it and shoot! Throw the output on a CD and give it to your neighbor.

Honestly, I've been a horses' behind about things like this in the past. At the end of the day, we let ourselves and others down by attempting to 'make a point,' or trying to be 'right.'

Would you rather be right, or happy? Go. Shoot. Promise a CD when you feel like delivering one.

dave

I guess I see things differently..... You don't have to be a butt about it. The OP has clearly been used and abused, and it does have to stop at some point. I'm not saying this would be that point, you don't have to stick it to your neighbor, but you can't be expected to show up at everyone's events all the time and take photos putting wear on your equipment for free. If your building a portfolio it's a little different than being the neighborhood photog who does everything for free.

If you must take photos, just borrow their p&s and have a fun time- don't be the photog- be the friend. If they can't respect that, then just excuse yourself early.

@ leeleemarie - I completely agree with you and think that is sound advice as well. Politely informing the client that what you're offering is typically not free is a good move. There have been times in my business when I have offered prints for free. I still write an invoice for the full price and then give a "Goodwill" discount for the same amount. The invoice then becomes a clear message the the product is typically not free, but I have given the client a credit.

@ Snyderman, I would have to respectfully disagree that leaving the camera at home is trying to make a point. I don't think that the PP would be disrespectful by leaving her camera at home. If anything, I think if the neighbour is only inviting the PP to the party in hopes of pictures being taken, then that is extremely disrespectful. The neighbour is then taking complete advantage of the kindess of the PP and that isn't right. It reminds me of the classic situation wherein a person is invited to the wedding shower because the bride wants more gift, but forget about being invited to the actual wedding, because the bride doesn't want to buy your meal.

snyderman wrote in post #7495783
Would you rather be right, or happy? Go. Shoot. Promise a CD when you feel like delivering one.

I think the point of the OP is that the neighbor's frequent expectations of free photos is making her unhappy. If she shoots and gives away another CD, she's neither right nor happy.

My simple response is always - sure I can do it but I'll have to charge you for the prints (I'm in the print business, no one get the digital files, period).

Have your standard pricing info avail and then state that you can give them a ( fill in the blank percentage discount ).

Now regardless of how you actually get your prints done - you'll need to have an online copyrighted proofing gallery that they can make their selections from. They communicate their selections to you and you collect payment either before or with delivery. Generally with family and friends payment on delivery works well - YMMV.

Stick to your guns, thats my advice. Even if it pisses some people off.

Or just dont piss people off and give in to their qualms. Up to you, but i`d probably go with the former.

smakelijk11 wrote in post #7496229
@ leeleemarie - I completely agree with you and think that is sound advice as well. Politely informing the client that what you're offering is typically not free is a good move. There have been times in my business when I have offered prints for free. I still write an invoice for the full price and then give a "Goodwill" discount for the same amount. The invoice then becomes a clear message the the product is typically not free, but I have given the client a credit.

I do gift certificates for family and friends especially!!! Too much drama when you work with friends or family. When my sister-in-law asked if I could take a few pictures of my nephew getting his first hair cut, I sent her a cute greeting card with a gift certificate, even though we chatted about it on the phone. She's a scrapbooker so she A-loved the card and B-was excited about receiving my "generous" gift. Plus, this made it crystal clear what she was getting from me. In this case, a free 5x7. When the pictures were edited, she was able to see the rest on my site and purchase them for a small *very small* set fee.

It's sad...when I had my son 8 years ago, I would have LOVED for someone to offer me their portrait service at a discounted rate. *if they said, "free"- I would have died!* Instead, I spent thousands on cr-appy sear$ studio pictures and my only "FREEBIE" was the lousy keychain I got for spending $159.99 on a collection of poorly printed images.

It doesn't really sound like you are on their Christmas list nor does it sound like you want to be. I own car dealerships and I am often invited to functions that I have no interest in going to. When I arrive, I tell the host at the front door that I am glad I was able to make it however, I will only be able to stay for 20 or 30 minutes as I have an whatever to take care of tonight as well. I set the pick from the very get go that I knew it was important for me to be there but the other thing is equally as important. That technique is always well received and leaves me in a situation where I can just vanish without saying good bye to anyone.

Works for me.

Don't lie though. You will almost always have to tell a second one to back the first one up and it just isn't right.

smakelijk11 wrote in post #7495395
I would like to politely and respectfully disagree with my British friend Phil in that a white lie is not always a bad thing. Just make sure that there is no way for them to find out. I think that saying your camera is in the shop this week is not necessarily a bad thing.
Good luck,

S

One of the reasons is wouldn't 'white lie' in this situation is that it doesn't solve the problem, it just avoids it. What happens next time the neighbours want to take advantage? Camera being serviced again? If the situation is sorted out properly now it should never rear it's ugly head again but I agree that neither of us know the dynamics of the situation and maybe a white-lie is a less painful escape route.

Phil

Thank you all for some wonderful advice! I agree I really should try to find a way to put an end to this by being up front and honest. Problem is that I know it won't be well received. Not that I care but they have lived in this small (1500 homes) community for a long time and have become very well connected (with the BOD, HOA, lots of people...). She's already told her big mouth friend and I'm sure I'm going to have a difficult time justifying my prices to any future clients in the community.

I made a huge mistake. Something I told myself I would never do when I started this business 3 yrs ago. My 1 golden rule and I broke it.

Thank you all again.

Jeni

jenirose3 wrote in post #7496905
Thank you all for some wonderful advice! I agree I really should try to find a way to put an end to this by being up front and honest. Problem is that I know it won't be well received. Not that I care but they have lived in this small (1500 homes) community for a long time and have become very well connected (with the BOD, HOA, lots of people...). She's already told her big mouth friend and I'm sure I'm going to have a difficult time justifying my prices to any future clients in the community.

I made a huge mistake. Something I told myself I would never do when I started this business 3 yrs ago. My 1 golden rule and I broke it.

Thank you all again.

Jeni

What exactly did she tell her 'big mouth' friend that you think will harm your business?

i would go as a guest. If they ask about pictures, just either woman up and tell the truth, or just say your camera is at service

Maybe shoot the pics, load them on an online gallery and email her a link. She can then choose what she wants to order through your print service and pricing (watermark all posted shots including thumbnails! big big watermark right over the whole shot ). If they ask for free shots tell them you'll get them a free 8x10 (or whatever) with their order. If they ask for a disk let them know that you've had problems with copyright violations from clients (not having to mention it's them that violated your copyright) and won't in good business practice be able to give electronic copies out anymore. Something along that line. This gives you the opportunity to underscore to her that this is your business and you have to treat it as such, as politely as possible. You take photos, and if they want to pay they can have them. At least you did your part, and she won't assume she'll get them free anymore. Sticky situation, sorry it got this far. I've found that most people think you go out and click a button and there's a great shot. They don't realize it's not just great gear but a skill you've taken a long time to hone that brought you to the point where you're making great photos. Good luck with this.

TheGreatOg wrote in post #7497220
Maybe shoot the pics, load them on an online gallery and email her a link. She can then choose what she wants to order through your print service and pricing (watermark all posted shots including thumbnails! big big watermark right over the whole shot ).

If she doesn't find out about the payments until after the event she will definitely be narked off. I'd make it clear it advance if you plan to do this...

@Philthejuggler - I agree with what you're saying now. The last point you brought up makes sense. If you do the bait and switch thing, that might make the customer even more angry. I also see your point that you cannot keep on lying about where your camera is. It's just like we both agreed upon, we don't know the dynamics of the situation. But I suppose in the end, if a "friend" is going to be upset because you're trying to be fair - then are they really a friend?

Just some food for thought...

I hope the weather is nice over in the UK.. you're welcome here in Canada anytime my friend.

S

smakelijk11 wrote in post #7497339
@Philthejuggler - I agree with what you're saying now. The last point you brought up makes sense. If you do the bait and switch thing, that might make the customer even more angry. I also see your point that you cannot keep on lying about where your camera is. It's just like we both agreed upon, we don't know the dynamics of the situation. But I suppose in the end, if a "friend" is going to be upset because you're trying to be fair - then are they really a friend?

Just some food for thought...

I hope the weather is nice over in the UK.. you're welcome here in Canada anytime my friend.

S

Many thanks for the invite! I'd love to visit!!