New Canon G6 owner, hello everyone!

First of all hello everyone, I'm really glad I found this forum. I've been a Mac user for about three years now and know how great an online community can be in helping each other with issues. I have been reading on this forum since yesterday and decided to post an email I sent to a friend who is a photographer, and hopefully get some good input from you all. My friend hasn't responded yet, but is actually the one who encouraged me to get the G6. It was between the G6 and the Panasonic FZ20. Well, here goes an exerpt from the email, please note that I am a newbie, but have been reading alot and am not afraid to get into the AV, TV, or even Manual settings, just need a little guidance. The email is primarily my frustration with the Auto mode.

"I been taking alot of shots with my new camera and overall am pleased. Still having some problems in the Auto mode with it defaulting to F 2.0 and 1/60 shutter speed with indoor lighting. So I tend to use the AV mode and set the F-stop to 4.0 or higher, but then I usually get a camera "shake" warning. Am I missing something? Is there a "magical" setting for taking indoor snapshots that gives me a large depth of field? I'm starting to think this camera is not good for "snapshots" or I am really missing something. I have played around in the AV mode and found that when I focus on whatever and wherever in the composition it is in focus and I get the "effect" I should get, I guess I'm not sure how to get, say a group photo indoors in low to medium lighting, with everyone in "focus" not just the person in the AF frame. I hope I am making sense. My old Fuji 2600 would take these kind of pics, with usually fairly good results at least as far as what was in focus, now granted they were typically alot noisier, which I hated. I'm just frustrated with the whole depth of field thing and camera shake warning at higher Aperature Values, sorry for rambling, The other thing that I didn't want to "have" to do is get an external flash. I do have the red eye reduction setting invoked, but still get red eye, this seemed to have gone away with my old Fuji when I used the red eye reduction setting. Please forgive me for even comparing the Fuji 2600 to this camera, I know the Canon is a much better unit, and it is operator error or maybe expectation that is the problem, but it is my only point of reference. Was I expecting too much in Auto mode or were my expectations misplaced. Any advice is greatly appreciated"


Looking forward to your responses and getting to know you,

Joe

welcome to the cult..er i mean club! hope you post some works soon!

Shoot in RAW mode and you'll be blown away by the G6's image quality.

There is a free viewer out there called FastStone Image Viewer and you can readily view RAW images and do basic things like sharpen/blur. For a free program, it rivals and exceeds many programs that you pay $$ for.

I use Photoshop CS for serious post-processing though.

Joe,

There are two parts to a camera's exposure: how large an opening the lens uses (f/stop or aperture) and how long the lens is opened (shutter speed). The f/stop controls the depth of field while the shutter speed controls the ability of the camera to stop action and, thus, avoid camera shake.

In order to avoid getting the camera shake warning, you need to use a shutter speed sufficient for the length of the lens on the camera. The rule of thumb is 1 over the length of the lens (using it's 35 mm camera equivalent.) By that, I mean: if you set the G6 to it's widest lens setting, you're using the equivalent of a 35 mm lens. Typically, you can get by with using 1/30th of second if you're careful. Using 1/60th of a second would be better.

By the same token, if you're using the longest telephoto end of the zoom lens, it is equivalent to 140 mm on a 35 mm camera. Thus, you would want to use at least 1/125th of second to try to keep it steady. Again, 1/250th of second would be better.

What these examples don't take into account is if the subject is moving, as well, but since your example discusses a stationary group, we'll leave that to another lesson.

Now, where this affects depth-of-field is that the smaller the aperture (larger number f/stop) the greater the depth-of-field. The problem is that every time you move the f/stop by one full setting (i.e. from f/2.0 to f/2.8 ), you have to slow the shutter speed down by one stop to get the same exposure.

In your example, the G6 is setting the lens at f/2.0 and the shutter speed at 1/60th of second. Move it to f/4.0, as you were doing, drops the shutter speed to 1/15th of second to get the same exposure. (The G6 in AV mode will automatically slow the shutter speed to compensate.)

That's why you keep gettng the camera shake warning because it's too slow to easily steady the camera that much. (Some pros can do it with proper bracing.) The options are to use a tripod which will keep the camera shake from being an issue, although you might see some motion in the people, or to use a higher ISO which let you use a higher shutter speed. Another option is to use the flash.

With the wide angle setting of the G6, you get pretty good depth of field at f/2.8 but the people need to be in the same plane. In other words they have to reasonably close to the same distance away.

Hopefully, this explains it clearly enough for you to figure out what you need to do to capture the shots you want.

If not, ask more questions and we'll see if we can help you.

Michael

P.S. Even with the red-eye reduction turned on, the G6 is prone to red-eye. An external flash, although not the answer you're looking for, will help tremendously.

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the great reponse! Many years ago I took a basic photography class, so I do know a little and am really trying to learn alot more. The one thing I noticed you mentioned about using the flash, I do have the flash on in the auto mode, but when I press the shutter button half way, I still get F 2.0 and 1/60. I don't think it needs that slow of a shutter speed with the indoor lighting I have along with the camera "knowing" the flash is going to fire. The other thing is DOF, If I set the focus to "spot" then the only thing truly "in" focus is that area, if I use Canon's AiAF focus then the the camera "picks" like 3 areas to focus on. So the whole plane of the DOF at the same distance is not in focus. (I hope that I'm saying that all right) lol.
Anyway, it seems for me to get everything in focus in a indoor lighting situation "deep" DOF, I seem to need to be at F 5.6. But remember, I have no fear of the creative modes, just need to have a kinda standard for certain situations, like holidays, when you are basically taking "snapshots". But I truly want to explore all the other modes and really take cool shots, but I still need to do the snapshot thing at times. LOL

Joe

LOL

I know all about cults, I'm a mac user

No FastStone for Mac.

I typically use iPhoto which can import RAW. Also have an app called PhotoStudio, but have not used it for RAW yet.

Bosman,
Can i ask what were the deciding issues for you when you selected the G6 over the FZ20?

Joe,

Yes, the G6 defaults to 1/60th of second and the widest aperture when you use the flash in the Auto or P mode. On top of that, if you use the TV mode (Shutter Priority) to get a faster flash sync speed (you can use up to 1/250th of second,) the G6 then sets the aperture to f/2.0 or f/3.0 (depending on where the zoom lens is in it's range.)

If you want to use f/5.6 and you use AV (Aperture Priority) to set it, the shutter speed will default to 1/60th of second. That drives me crazy! I would prefer that it defaults to 1/250th of second, since it can sync at that speed and let me set the f/stops where I want them to be.

The 1/60th of second setting can cause some "ghosting" if the room is well lit enough. That's where there's enough light for a faint exposure from the ambient light and then you get your correctly exposed image from the flash. That's not much of an issue at 1/250th of a second but then you don't get the depth-of-field. Talk about a vicious cycle!

The only option to get both a high shutter speed and a smaller lens opening when using the flash is to set the camera manually. Then, you have to test your exposures to try to get the right settings. Not very convenient.

You are correct, for deep depth of field, f/5.6 - f/8.0 works best. In my film days, it wasn't unusual for me to use f/11.0 on a bright day outdoors. My understanding is that the lens on the G6 is not at it's optimum quality when you start stopping it down that far.

By the way, I'm a Mac user, too. (G4 upgraded B&W.) I just recently purchase PhotoShop Elements 3.0 and it has a digital camera raw mode so it will open G6 photos in Raw mode. I just tested it to make sure. (If you need a good deal on PhotoShop Elements 3.0, Purplus.com has the OEM version for $37. That's where I got mine. I was even able to register it with Adobe!)

I'm still in the learning stage with the G6, as well. I bought it in December but it's going to take a lot of shots to completely figure it out. One thing I've figured out is that digital photography is deceptive. It seems like it works the same as film photography, and some things do work the, but there are some differences that can be confusing. A ccd doesn't react like film.

I shot several hundred rolls of film to learn how it worked (when I was a student) so I know a lot of this just comes with practice.

Have fun practicing!

Michael

Well it was a tough decision, because I really, really, really, wanted that 12x optical stabilized zoom! But in the end I thought the 2+ extra megapixels I figured would give me some more cropping room that would help compensate for the longer zoom, and the overall quality of the Canon won me over, along with holding them, the G6 seemed to have a better feel, the lens on the Panasonic seemed so big and wide,like a soup can stuck on the body, compared to the rest of the body of the camera. So it was the Leica 12x zoom, vs the 2+ extra MP and the quality of the Canon name. Now that I'm struggling with the faster lens, which I thought was big bonus, since I do take alot of indoor low light photos, I'm wondering how the Panasonic that started at F 2.8 would have been in Auto mode as far as depth of field.
Anyways, no looking back. The G6 from what I read at about 6 or 7 different review sites is just a better overall camera.

Joe

Another thing, I bought a Sandisk Ultra II 512 MB card, was planning on shooting for the most part in Large, fine or superfine. What card do you all use?
Does anyone have the Lexar Firewire Card Reader? It takes forever to load 512MB on USB 1.

Bosman wrote:
Another thing, I bought a Sandisk Ultra II 512 MB card, was planning on shooting for the most part in Large, fine or superfine. What card do you all use?
Does anyone have the Lexar Firewire Card Reader? It takes forever to load 512MB on USB 1.

Yes USB 1 is only supported by the Canon G6, it takes even longer for 1Gb cards. The speed of the card will not enhance the download times associated with USB1. Your best option would be to use an external USB2 card reader.

I was aware of this when i bought my G6, but i had planned to buy a tnew printer at about the same time, so i simply bought the Epson R310 which had a USB2 card reader built into it. USB2 reader is very fast compared to the off camera body connection.

I download all 130 or so raw images in less than 5 minutes.

Not to nit pic, because i have the G6 also and its a great point and shoot, but if the zoom was such a large issue. the Pro1 would been the more logical choice dont you think?

Yes that is why I asked about the Lexar Firewire card reader.

Well the G6 and the FZ20 were in the same price range. I paid like $491.00 for my G6 from buydig.com