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Thread started 06 Apr 2009 (Monday) 21:02
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5D2 maze/artifact/pattern

 
Panopeeper
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Apr 06, 2009 21:02 |  #1

I saw complaints about "noise" at low ISO, "artifacts" and "maze pattern" of the 5D2 from three 5D2 owners.

The phenomenon is something like

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


this is created by ACR from a raw image, sharpened, here in 3x magnification.

The source of this pattern is the faulty sensor; the demosaicing misinterprets the phenomenon and that causes the mase-like pattern.

Is this phenomenon known here, has anyone encountered it?

Gabor

  
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timnosenzo
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Apr 06, 2009 21:04 |  #2

Panopeeper wrote in post #7681481 (external link)
this is created by ACR from a raw image, sharpened, here in 300%.

Does that not seem like a lot?

I have not seen this, but I don't sharpen my images that much.


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Panopeeper
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Apr 06, 2009 21:10 |  #3

The 300% is magnification.


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timnosenzo
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Apr 06, 2009 21:18 |  #4

Panopeeper wrote in post #7681541 (external link)
The 300% is magnification.

Oh, I don't look at my images at 300% either.

EDIT: Ok, to satisfy my curiosity I looked at a few pictures at 200% and 400% magnification, and I don't see anything like what you posted.


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Panopeeper
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Apr 06, 2009 21:51 |  #5

timnosenzo wrote in post #7681589 (external link)
I looked at a few pictures at 200% and 400% magnification, and I don't see anything like what you posted.

Well, that's the point. The phenomenon is caused by the faulty sensor; I have seen samples from three such cameras.

To preemt further naive questions: the magnification is for the demonstration. In normal view this appears as noise, with the speciality that it occurs even in well-exposed areas at low ISO.


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Brett
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Apr 06, 2009 22:27 |  #6

You've twice said "faulty sensor". You mean a bad copy of the camera, or are you saying that the MII's sensor is by design faulty?

300% is really pushing the pixel-peeping. What does it look like at 100%? That's the largest crop that's likely to be usable in print.



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Colorblinded
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Apr 06, 2009 22:39 |  #7

I've seen similar behavior before in other cameras but that was with a similarly extreme viewing condition with lots of adjustments or tweaks done to the image.


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Panopeeper
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Apr 06, 2009 22:53 |  #8

Brett wrote in post #7682001 (external link)
You mean a bad copy of the camera

Yes.

300% is really pushing the pixel-peeping. What does it look like at 100%?

Panopeeper wrote in post #7681780 (external link)
In normal view this appears as noise, with the speciality that it occurs even in well-exposed areas at low ISO


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Colorblinded
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Apr 06, 2009 22:58 |  #9

What happens if the RAWs are processed with something other than ACR?

I wouldn't want it either way depending on how prevalent/visible it is, but this isn't giving much to go on. 3 users isn't many though but it's still interesting. I wonder if they all own cameras from a particular batch.


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Panopeeper
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Apr 06, 2009 23:30 |  #10

emorphien wrote in post #7682147 (external link)
What happens if the RAWs are processed with something other than ACR?

The same with DPP. A demosaicing algorythm, which treates thze two green channels on their own, could reduce the effect; however, circumventing it is not the point. Those sensors are crap, they have to be replaced.

I wonder if they all own cameras from a particular batch.

Their serial numbers are vastly different. One of them is in France, the others are I think in North America.


Gabor

  
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basroil
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Apr 06, 2009 23:37 |  #11

Panopeeper wrote in post #7682317 (external link)
The same with DPP. A demosaicing algorythm, which treates thze two green channels on their own, could reduce the effect; however, circumventing it is not the point. Those sensors are crap, they have to be replaced.


Their serial numbers are vastly different. One of them is in France, the others are I think in North America.

Two broken sensors a crisis does not make.
-camera yoda

The issue here seems to be software and only software, be it in camera or not. The lines shown are well past the nyquist frequency and can't possibly be a result of sensor, ADC, or even file storing. It can only be produced from sharpening an image or improper decoding of the raw. From the comments made before, as well as the fact that the colors change between the lines, this is simply a result of overaggressive sharpening creating boundaries between colors in the noise pattern. If you don't want this to happen, simply don't use so much sharpening on such a small radius, and use lanczos/spline64 to resize rather than point filter.


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Jam71868
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Apr 07, 2009 00:26 |  #12

Another weak attempt to 5dmkii bash.


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Perry ­ Ge
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Apr 07, 2009 00:31 |  #13

WTF?

Give the 5DII a break - why is it that the extreme pixel peepers seem to target this camera? First the black dots, then this. Come on. And I mostly agree with basroil's explanation.


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indradji
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Apr 07, 2009 00:56 |  #14

I do hope it's nothing but an isolated problem.
As soon as I saw this thread I checked the results from last week's shooting with mine and couldn't see that pattern at 100%, 200%, 300% & 400% at any of my photos.
All my photos were taken with ISO 50, full RAW and sharpened in DPP.
I have 5D2 with the latest firmware & DPP software.




  
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basroil
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Apr 07, 2009 02:16 |  #15

indradji wrote in post #7682623 (external link)
I do hope it's nothing but an isolated problem.
As soon as I saw this thread I checked the results from last week's shooting with mine and couldn't see that pattern at 100%, 200%, 300% & 400% at any of my photos.
All my photos were taken with ISO 50, full RAW and sharpened in DPP.
I have 5D2 with the latest firmware & DPP software.

I'm sure that most of the senior members here will agree with me in thinking it is likely not an isolated problem.... because it's not really a real problem at all ;)


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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5D2 maze/artifact/pattern
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