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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 06 Apr 2009 (Monday) 23:11
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Sometimes I wish...

 
[Hyuni]
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Apr 06, 2009 23:11 |  #1

That consumer grade bodies were never made.
I don't mean any malice against anyone that has it nor am I knocking on the quality of photos it can take. I just don't like how they are being marketed as an upgrade to a P&S, when it's literally in a league of it's own.

My main gripe is that they've become affordable enough so many misinformed buyers don't really think things through before they buy. I see or get asked countless, "Should I buy the D40/40x/60 or the XT/XTi/Xs/XSi" questions without any reason WHY they are jumping into the world of DSLRs, WHAT they want to take photos of, and IF they realize a DSLR isn't nearly as simple nor comfortable to carry around as a P&S.

There's too many people buying DSLRs for the wrong reasons.
1) They automatically assume a DSLR will give them great pictures 100% of the time
2) They buy it as a gadget of the month or because everyone else is getting one
3) They buy it because they think 'sel-ca' photos will come out better

1) There's a LOT of features and functions that aren't on a regular P&S that allows taking one-of-a-kind pictures, but if they don't take the time to learn them, their pictures will most likely always be under/over exposed, blurry, mis focused, or just plain boring.
2) Sure it's great to pop it out at your next family gathering or when you're hanging out with friends, but it's uncomfortable to carry around, costs more, and it's harder to use for quick shots like you do with your P&S. Most times, these groups of people buy it, and within a month, it becomes nothing more than a large paperweight.
3) Don't get me wrong, DSLRs are GREAT for portraits, but when you're taking a photo of yourself... that's another story. It's big and bulky compared to your regular P&S, so angling it at the 45 degree angle is not easy nor recommended. Plus, even if you manage to get a decent shot, the picture will be so clear that it will show all your blemishes. For 'sel-ca' pictures, the BEST would be the old-school instant polaroid cameras. Those make ANYONE look good because they always come out overexposed and not only hide your blemishes, but makes your face look smaller. heh

It's such a diservice to the camera to be used as some kind of glorified P&S camera. That's like buying a BMW 7 series and slapping on $10 tires, the cheapest fuel, and only driving it around the neighborhood. You'll never realize it's potential.It's dishearting to see people blaming cameras or lenses for their lack of functions or features when the source of their problem is an unwillingness to invest the time and effort into learning about photography.

I'm still a newbie at photography, but I'm constantly learning new things, expanding my boundaries, experimenting, and thus resulting in gaining a more creative eye to capture something unique that is usually overlooked.

The reason I got into DSLRs is because I've always been interested in photography (I was an early P&S adopter and brought it with me everywhere I went), but never had enough disposible cash to invest more into my hobby. Now that I started my career, I'm indulging in the limitless opportunities in this amazing art ;)

Here's my updated response to what everyone's been saying.
https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=7684130&po​stcount=23


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Marloon
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Apr 06, 2009 23:23 |  #2

and now, you've caused hell on POTN again....

and i for one, am going to start it by saying i totally disagree... if people want to buy a consumer grade camera... let them. i dont know why you are being so whiny about it.

-people ask which camera they should buy because they have a lack of information... that and they generally want to take better pictures... thats good enough a reason.

-DSLRs are really simple to use these days. slap on the scene modes and the user is going to have a great day shooting!

There's too many people buying DSLRs for the wrong reasons.
1) They automatically assume a DSLR will give them great pictures 100% of the time
- they assumed correctly. better noise capabilities, better AF accuracy, more accurate colors...

1) There's a LOT of features and functions that aren't on a regular P&S that allows taking one-of-a-kind pictures, but if they don't take the time to learn them, their pictures will most likely always be under/over exposed, blurry, mis focused, or just plain boring.

pictures will not really look under/over exposed, blurry, mis focused, or just plain boring...

with today's camera advancements, theres a high chance that a lot of shots, even noob shots are keepers! and didnt you start off like this? heck? didnt we all start like this?! then we learned the rules and then we modified the rules...

i'm too lazy to continue on...

[Hyuni wrote:
='[Hyuni];7682222']Tha​t consumer grade bodies were never made.
I don't mean any malice against anyone that has it nor am I knocking on the quality of photos it can take. I just don't like how they are being marketed as an upgrade to a P&S, when it's literally in a league of it's own.

My main gripe is that they've become affordable enough so many misinformed buyers don't really think things through before they buy. I see or get asked countless, "Should I buy the D40/40x/60 or the XT/XTi/Xs/XSi" questions without any reason WHY they are jumping into the world of DSLRs, WHAT they want to take photos of, and IF they realize a DSLR isn't nearly as simple nor comfortable to carry around as a P&S.

There's too many people buying DSLRs for the wrong reasons.
1) They automatically assume a DSLR will give them great pictures 100% of the time
2) They buy it as a gadget of the month or because everyone else is getting one
3) They buy it because they think 'sel-ca' photos will come out better

1) There's a LOT of features and functions that aren't on a regular P&S that allows taking one-of-a-kind pictures, but if they don't take the time to learn them, their pictures will most likely always be under/over exposed, blurry, mis focused, or just plain boring.
2) Sure it's great to pop it out at your next family gathering or when you're hanging out with friends, but it's uncomfortable to carry around, costs more, and it's harder to use for quick shots like you do with your P&S. Most times, these groups of people buy it, and within a month, it becomes nothing more than a large paperweight.
3) Don't get me wrong, DSLRs are GREAT for portraits, but when you're taking a photo of yourself... that's another story. It's big and bulky compared to your regular P&S, so angling it at the 45 degree angle is not easy nor recommended. Plus, even if you manage to get a decent shot, the picture will be so clear that it will show all your blemishes. For 'sel-ca' pictures, the BEST would be the old-school instant polaroid cameras. Those make ANYONE look good because they always come out overexposed and not only hide your blemishes, but makes your face look smaller. heh

It's such a diservice to the camera to be used as some kind of glorified P&S camera. That's like buying a BMW 7 series and slapping on $10 tires, the cheapest fuel, and only driving it around the neighborhood. You'll never realize it's potential.It's dishearting to see people blaming cameras or lenses for their lack of functions or features when the source of their problem is an unwillingness to invest the time and effort into learning about photography.

I'm still a newbie at photography, but I'm constantly learning new things, expanding my boundaries, experimenting, and thus resulting in gaining a more creative eye to capture something unique that is usually overlooked.

The reason I got into DSLRs is because I've always been interested in photography (I was an early P&S adopter and brought it with me everywhere I went), but never had enough disposible cash to invest more into my hobby. Now that I started my career, I'm indulging in the limitless opportunities in this amazing art ;)


I'm MARLON

Former Canon Platinum CPS member

5DII • 24L • 35L • 50L • 85L • 135L • 200LIS

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JeffreyG
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Apr 07, 2009 05:18 |  #3

I think the Rebel line is a great thing. Nobody is born a photographer, and if the price of entry to even try it was high then there would be no hobbiests.

I think a lot of people buy entry level dSLR bodies expecting some automated quantum leap from their P&S. A lot are probably satisfied by the lack of noise at ISO400 and the lack of shutter lag and take it no further.

Some are bitten by the bug and really get into it.

What is the downside? Most people end up with a camera that is better than a P&S even when used mindlessly in auto mode, and some become serious hobbiests.


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HSK
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Apr 07, 2009 05:22 |  #4

This will not end well...



  
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HSK
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Apr 07, 2009 05:24 |  #5

But i'll be honest with you, not one person I know that owns a "consumer" grade DSLR camera, uses it in the way that you've described. As a glorified P&S. They all try utilize it for creativity and to its' abilities.



  
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timnosenzo
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Apr 07, 2009 05:26 |  #6

JeffreyG wrote in post #7683199 (external link)
I think the Rebel line is a great thing. Nobody is born a photographer, and if the price of entry to even try it was high then there would be no hobbiests.

I think a lot of people buy entry level dSLR bodies expecting some automated quantum leap from their P&S. A lot are probably satisfied by the lack of noise at ISO400 and the lack of shutter lag and take it no further.

Some are bitten by the bug and really get into it.

What is the downside? Most people end up with a camera that is better than a P&S even when used mindlessly in auto mode, and some become serious hobbiests.

I agree 100%. And for what it's worth, this is nothing new with digital SLR's, people were doing the same thing with film SLRs.


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artyman
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Apr 07, 2009 06:13 |  #7

I would have thought that the SuperZoom bridge cameras would be the logical upgrade for a P&S user that wanted to upgrade without going the whole hog of DSLR. Mind you as a 'consumer' model user I'm glad there was an affordable replacement entry into DSLR after my OM1n


Art that takes you there. http://www.artyman.co.​uk (external link)
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DC ­ Fan
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Apr 07, 2009 06:47 as a reply to  @ artyman's post |  #8

Blame George Eastman. (external link) He's the man who made photography cheap and popular. If Eastman hadn't made roll film and Kodak Brownies in 1895, photography would still be in the hands of artists and experts who used real, glass-plate cameras.




  
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KjellG
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Apr 07, 2009 07:15 |  #9

[Hyuni wrote:
='[Hyuni];7682222']My main gripe is that they've become affordable enough so many misinformed buyers don't really think things through before they buy.

This goes for... every product in the world.

[Hyuni wrote:
='[Hyuni];7682222']The​re's too many people buying DSLRs for the wrong reasons.
1) They automatically assume a DSLR will give them great pictures 100% of the time
2) They buy it as a gadget of the month or because everyone else is getting one
3) They buy it because they think 'sel-ca' photos will come out better

1) There's a LOT of features and functions that aren't on a regular P&S that allows taking one-of-a-kind pictures, but if they don't take the time to learn them, their pictures will most likely always be under/over exposed, blurry, mis focused, or just plain boring.
2) Sure it's great to pop it out at your next family gathering or when you're hanging out with friends, but it's uncomfortable to carry around, costs more, and it's harder to use for quick shots like you do with your P&S. Most times, these groups of people buy it, and within a month, it becomes nothing more than a large paperweight.
3) Don't get me wrong, DSLRs are GREAT for portraits, but when you're taking a photo of yourself... that's another story. It's big and bulky compared to your regular P&S, so angling it at the 45 degree angle is not easy nor recommended. Plus, even if you manage to get a decent shot, the picture will be so clear that it will show all your blemishes. For 'sel-ca' pictures, the BEST would be the old-school instant polaroid cameras. Those make ANYONE look good because they always come out overexposed and not only hide your blemishes, but makes your face look smaller. heh

1) I wouldn't make that sweeping generalization, alot of people buy dSLRS for the higher ISO they can use or the better FPS (people documenting events, concerts, their kids sportsgames, e.t.c.). Features the P&S often lack.

2) And? I'm sure everyone has something in their homes they bought and later isn't using. Be glad their money is "supporting the industry".

3) I'm not sure what kind of people we're talking about here.

[Hyuni wrote:
='[Hyuni];7682222']It's such a diservice to the camera to be used as some kind of glorified P&S camera. That's like buying a BMW 7 series and slapping on $10 tires, the cheapest fuel, and only driving it around the neighborhood. You'll never realize it's potential.It's dishearting to see people blaming cameras or lenses for their lack of functions or features when the source of their problem is an unwillingness to invest the time and effort into learning about photography.

Yes I'm sure the dSLRS are crying about it every night.

[Hyuni wrote:
='[Hyuni];7682222']I'm still a newbie at photography, but I'm constantly learning new things, expanding my boundaries, experimenting, and thus resulting in gaining a more creative eye to capture something unique that is usually overlooked.

Good for you. I hope you're treating every device you have with a similar philosophy. Not everyone does, and I don't see why anyone would care if they do.


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smorter
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Apr 07, 2009 07:40 |  #10

I am of the opinion that a quality FF camera like a 5D or 5D Mark II should be the very first camera that anyone buys. I mean, whenever a photographer is asked what they wish they started off with, nobody says "a 450D" or something like that, yet Rebels and the xxD series are the most often recommended cameras for newbies.

After using a FF camera, I realise that everyone who told me to get a 400D when I first started was actually doing me a huge disservice. Cameras like the xxxD and even xxD series hold back your development as a photographer and really should not be recommended at all except in this instances of where budget is a really big issue.


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SBWorking
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Apr 07, 2009 07:57 |  #11

I am of the opinion that a quality FF camera like a 5D or 5D Mark II should be the very first camera that anyone buys. I mean, whenever a photographer is asked what they wish they started off with, nobody says "a 450D" or something like that, yet Rebels and the xxD series are the most often recommended cameras for newbies.

Spoken like a true 5D owner ! ;)


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malla1962
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Apr 07, 2009 08:10 as a reply to  @ SBWorking's post |  #12

Who cares what people buy, its a free world.;)


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guntoter
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Apr 07, 2009 08:16 |  #13

Since upgrading from P&S to DSLR's (2.5 yrs ago), I have studied constantly. These cameras will do so much with the proper lenses, settings, etc. Sure is a fun hobby/business.

Lately I have come acroos quite a few people who use their new DSLR lke a P&S (auto only). When you talk about Aperture, SS, ISO, etc, they are looking at you with a blank stare.

My urge is to help them understand what a good tool they have. All most all of them seem very interested. However, many of them never follow through. NO PROBLEM. As long as they feel good with their purchase, it is fine. Any of them that I can impart some knowledge, I am willing, because I am grateful for all the knowledge that others have imparted to me. Some of the main things I recommend to them is to get on POTN, read their owners manual to get familiar with their toy, buy Understanding Exposure, and practice, practice, practice.

It is all good.


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DAMphyne
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Apr 07, 2009 08:21 |  #14

smorter wrote in post #7683677 (external link)
I am of the opinion that a quality FF camera like a 5D or 5D Mark II should be the very first camera that anyone buys. I mean, whenever a photographer is asked what they wish they started off with, nobody says "a 450D" or something like that, yet Rebels and the xxD series are the most often recommended cameras for newbies.

After using a FF camera, I realise that everyone who told me to get a 400D when I first started was actually doing me a huge disservice. Cameras like the xxxD and even xxD series hold back your development as a photographer and really should not be recommended at all except in this instances of where budget is a really big issue.


I am of the opinion that,
1) this statement is "Elitist", and has nothing to do with reality.:rolleyes:
2) in no way does the APS-C DSLR hold back development.:confused:
3) Budget is' Always' an issue.:cool:


David
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ebann
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Apr 07, 2009 08:22 |  #15

Heck, I would prefer a consumer DSLR + cheap lens over any P&S.


Ellery Bann
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Sometimes I wish...
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