How to price commercial work?

My model portfolio has received some attention of a small jewelery company and they want to hire me to shoot pictures for their new catalog.

Well... they want to hire me to get the models, location, makeup, hair and then take the pictures. All of which adds up.

The studio needs to be paid (I rent time), the models need to be paid, the make up and hair girls need to be paid... and then me.

This is a small company that does quarterly catalogs. This is an amazing opportunity but I had to skirt around the 'how much do you charge' issue because I haven't a clue.

I don't know how much time this is all going to take or what their budget is and I'd love some advice on how to go about pricing it all. Anyone do commercial work and can help me?


Jen D.

Hi Jen,
First you need to know how much all of those cost, ie;models, hair, make up, studio, etc. cover all of your expenses then charge a rate, either a creative fee, which includes your time and creative expertise, or hourly, if you use hourly charge for your postprocessing also. I find it best not to think if they're a big or small company, as with small companies you tend to drop your cost below what it costs you to create. I also charge more per model, so my base includes 1 model, there is an extra charge per model thereafter.

hope that elps, I've got a cold so can't think straight

Hi Jen,

This is a great opportunity, or you next nightmare. It really depends on the client, and their experience with professional photography. One thing I've found over time, if the client isn't experienced with professional photography, they have no clue about what a time sink this will be, and thus nickel and dime the photographer to no end.

First off, when you do your pricing, make yourself a bottom line price that you will not cross no matter what. Take everything you expect to have to do for this project, and add up all the time. From phone calls to get models, MUA's, post production, time shooting, etc. Give it an hourly number you need to make per hour to be worth your while.

Then add to that the actual expenses you will incur. Props, assistants, expendables, etc. Add in a fudge factor for the unforeseen expenses, which always seem to add up quickly. Then add a 10-20% markup which helps recoup the cost of you carrying the expenses for your client. If you ask for an advance, I reduce the markup a bit since the expenses are then covered up front.

You also need to factor in your overhead. This is basically all your expenses for the year. Such as supplies, advertising, cost of website, insurance, etc. Also, your time time spent on marketing, administration, taxes, web site development, invoicing, etc, all needs to be given a hourly rate and added into the overhead. divided by the number of jobs you do each year. Then roll in the overhead costs.

Then add in say 30% for additional profit, growth, retirement, etc.

Now you should have a figure that you will actually make a profit on when you complete the job. But there is more.

You now need to figure in usage. The more places the images will be used, the higher the usage rate will be. For national companies, this fee could exceed all the expenses and creative fees. For a small company using the images locally or regionally, it won't be nearly as high, and it might be best to bury the usage in the creative fee. They typically don't understand usage, so I include it in the fee, and tell them the usage is included. This helps them get used to the term usage, but not see it as a separate item that they can question and try to negotiate out of the price.

The usage is generally figured on a per image basis. How many times it will be used, where it will be used, how large the image will be, etc. It can be very complicated. But you can also figure a basic price internally, then quote that to the client as a package of sorts. Or as mentioned, include it in the creative fee.

Jen, if they do a quarterly catalog they should have a budget in mind. It's not unprofessional to ask them what they have to spend and then using the excellent advise Stephen has already given you try to make it work. For instance if they used friends or family for models in the past they may be in for a shock if you price it using agency prices. As one old photographer used to joke about when asked for a price his answer was welllll, how much you got?

Figure out your hourly rate for your time to do the shoot and edit the images. Estimate the number of hours you realistically think it will take to do the job. Take that number and double it. If you think 20 hours then go with 40 for the estimate. Tell them your rate is that total (40 hours x your rate per hour) + your expenses for the job. you should have a good idea of what the studio, models, MUA, etc will cost and tell them that estimate if you want them to pay that directly. Tell them they can pay you for all of that stuff but then you have to mark it up to cover your time and expense for being the middle man. Alternatively you can estimate that cost and just double that as well and charge them for it. That's your call. Some people like to contol all of that stuff in house, while others don't want to have to float all that cost out of pocket. It really depends on the size of the project and what you can afford to cover. At any rate take a deposit of at LEAST your out of pocket expenses before you do a thing. Don't spend hours and hours lining up models and stuff and have to eat it when the client changes their mind (which will happen often in my experience). The project isn't yours until they sign a contract and pay the deposit. PERIOD.

That's how I would handle it.

Jen-

It is very important to have a planning discussion about the cost of the catalog project and budget for photography services. If they only make 1000 catalogs and only want to spend $200 on the photo shoot, then you will not have to waste your time. After you get the basics of number of products/images, location, talent, schedule, then you tell them you will work up a detailed budget that reflects how you will deliver the assigned Final Images.

The detailed budget could look somethig like this:

Final Images: 20
Estimated Photo Shoot: 4 hours
Photography Fees: 6 hrs * $100=$600
Image Use Fees(2 years): Included
Studio/Location Fees: $250
Talent Fees: 4 hours * $50 * 2 models=$400
Styling Fees: $200
Misc Fees: $100
TOTAL: $1550

Cost Savings Ideas: Reduce Final Images for Shorter Shoot, Less Models, Use free location instead of studio

With any commercial project, you need to talk about image use and copyright. For the above pricing, I would generally include 2 years of unrestricted image use with you keeping copyright. Longer use or copyright transfer would incur higher fees. This pricing would be reasonable for a small business in my market, YMMV.

Good Luck,
Scott

YES! Don't be afraid to ask what their budget is!

"Booking charge".

For something like this, I would (1) ask for an advance, (2) charge a day rate, & (3) be sure to include in the contract, "Grant of Rights. Upon receipt of full payment, Photographer grants to the Client the following rights in the Work.""

See post #5 in:
Photography Rates

Sticky: How much Do I Charge? One of the most often asked questions

Creative Commons - several copyright licenses.These licenses, depending on the one chosen, restrict only certain rights (or none) of the work.
http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Creative_Common​s
http://creativecommons​.org/license/

Thanks for all of the fabulous advice everyone!

I'll be talking to the company tomorrow - I had a 'test session' with the models I was considering using for this and good thing as 2 flaked on me - so I'll be sure to at least get an idea of budget and what would be expected of me before I dive any deeper into this.


Jen D.

mai_lin wrote in post #7771789
Thanks for all of the fabulous advice everyone!

I'll be talking to the company tomorrow - I had a 'test session' with the models I was considering using for this and good thing as 2 flaked on me - so I'll be sure to at least get an idea of budget and what would be expected of me before I dive any deeper into this.


Jen D.

I'm guessing they are TFP models found on an internet modeling site. This seems to be fairly typical for the 'brand' . If you are going to go that route, don't rely on TFP only to peak their interest, but also make sure you pay them something and promise (and deliver) a tear sheet. Tear sheets are worth more than prints, and it helps reduce the no-show factor.

Also, I would book an extra model or two just in case since its cheap insurance. I let the client know that they are saving big bucks over an agency model, and booking an extra model for insurance still saves them a bundle and reduces the risk of a critical model not showing and having no replacement. That would stop the shoot cold, and cost them far more in the end.

Good luck and have fun!

sspellman wrote in post #7734545
Jen-

It is very important to have a planning discussion about the cost of the catalog project and budget for photography services. If they only make 1000 catalogs and only want to spend $200 on the photo shoot, then you will not have to waste your time. After you get the basics of number of products/images, location, talent, schedule, then you tell them you will work up a detailed budget that reflects how you will deliver the assigned Final Images.

The detailed budget could look somethig like this:

Final Images: 20
Estimated Photo Shoot: 4 hours
Photography Fees: 6 hrs * $100=$600
Image Use Fees(2 years): Included
Studio/Location Fees: $250
Talent Fees: 4 hours * $50 * 2 models=$400
Styling Fees: $200
Misc Fees: $100
TOTAL: $1550

Cost Savings Ideas: Reduce Final Images for Shorter Shoot, Less Models, Use free location instead of studio

With any commercial project, you need to talk about image use and copyright. For the above pricing, I would generally include 2 years of unrestricted image use with you keeping copyright. Longer use or copyright transfer would incur higher fees. This pricing would be reasonable for a small business in my market, YMMV.

Good Luck,
Scott

Stellar delivery of information. Absolutely well put!

A few more comments from the peanut gallery

In sspellmans example, there is far too little time allocated for pre-planning or post-production work. With 6 hours billed for a 4 hour shoot, that only leaves 2 hours to contact, cast, schedule, and otherwise organize the shoot, do any post processing, image selection, and burning CD's. There will be considerable client interaction, they may get involved in picking the models, image selection, etc.

I've done hundreds of similar shoots for clients, and in 95% of the cases, a 4 hour shoot entails an additional 6-12 hours in client interaction, galleries and proofs, selection, model casting, paperwork, etc. So make sure all of that is included in the rate or you'll end up working for $8.23 an hour when all is finished. Its amazing even on a simple shoot, if you add up all the time spend with regard to that shoot, it can usually outpace the actual shooting time by a wide margin. So make sure you plan for it, and more importantly, bill for it.

Also, check what the local market rates are for commercial work. In a medium market, such as ours in Boston, generally its about $1,600-$2,500 a day depending on photographers skills, complexity of the project, etc. When I shoot in New York the rates are higher at $2,000-$3,000, and in smaller markets the rates are lower $1,000-$1,500 a day. Check around rather than leave money on the table that would be better used to grow your business. Once you get known for a price point, its hard to change even as you grown and progress as a photographer. So make sure you at least get the going rate in your area, rather than fight a harder uphill battle.

Lastly, usage is the norm in the commercial market, even if you decide to include it in your creative fee, make sure its still reflected in your rates. For example, if you go with the low end rate here at $1,6000 a day, if you include usage, you should increase that a suitable amount to cover the usage fees. If the client is more sophisticated, they will generally expect to see the usage fees separated so they can budget for future usage. Ie, if they want to extend the usage for another term, if the usage is spelled out they know exactly what it will cost them right up front. That eliminates the fear on what it might cost them to extend in the future, since its spelled out right up front, and not hidden where the photographer can later come back and charge them whatever they want since it was never specified.

Also check on the fees for talents, makeup artists, stylists, etc. They vary widely. The examples listed above wouldn't cover the expenses if you go through an agency here in the Boston area, but might cover using inexperienced models from internet modeling sites. You may need to be resourceful in finding talent for low rates, which will cost you more in time but less in costs. Just make sure your time is covered and billed for.

As sspellman noted, those rates are appropriate for a small business in his area. The rates I've listed are what I see in my market (Boston/New England). They may or may not apply to your area and client. Its all a balancing game, but the more information you have, they better balanced your estimates will be.

Well... this is all wonderful information! I'm meeting with them next week and found out they want 'tentless' jewlery pictures as the current pictures are done in a tent, badly. I'm going to try to educate them on why using a tent would be best/cheapest but I'm not holding my breathe on a postive response. Oh well.

Tentless pictures will require ridiculous amounts of lights and modifiers - much more than I have a available. The time necessary to set up those pictures without a tent will be much more than I anticipated (1 day total for this was my original estimate) My price will be reflective of that and then they'll give the job to the other photographer they're talking to (who happens to be a friend of mine) - so my hopes aren't high but I have a feeling their budget (about double what sspellman noted) will only cover half the shots they are looking for. I'll know more next week but I don't think I'll be getting this, and that's ok...


Jen D.

Very good information above that I won't repeat.

The only thing I would add on this is security and/or insurance for the jewelery. Since its probably expensive merchandise, I would highly suggest either you have to make sure the store/company is providing it or that you are not liable if the building burns down with all of the stuff inside -- or whatever.

I will always ask for a "responsible" person that will be holding and accounting for the merchandise to work with me during the shoot.

sspellman wrote in post #7734545
Jen-

It is very important to have a planning discussion about the cost of the catalog project and budget for photography services. If they only make 1000 catalogs and only want to spend $200 on the photo shoot, then you will not have to waste your time. After you get the basics of number of products/images, location, talent, schedule, then you tell them you will work up a detailed budget that reflects how you will deliver the assigned Final Images.

The detailed budget could look somethig like this:

Final Images: 20
Estimated Photo Shoot: 4 hours
Photography Fees: 6 hrs * $100=$600
Image Use Fees(2 years): Included
Studio/Location Fees: $250
Talent Fees: 4 hours * $50 * 2 models=$400
Styling Fees: $200
Misc Fees: $100
TOTAL: $1550

Cost Savings Ideas: Reduce Final Images for Shorter Shoot, Less Models, Use free location instead of studio

With any commercial project, you need to talk about image use and copyright. For the above pricing, I would generally include 2 years of unrestricted image use with you keeping copyright. Longer use or copyright transfer would incur higher fees. This pricing would be reasonable for a small business in my market, YMMV.

Good Luck,
Scott

That is a pretty low fee for a quality model. Please don't skimp on the model they will make or break a photo. Also don't include licensing in the photography fee. A good way to cover your time for pre planning is to ad a % fee on top of the expenses. Usually a sliding scale. I would say %20 for a $1000 expenses bill.

aram535 wrote in post #7835847
Very good information above that I won't repeat.

The only thing I would add on this is security and/or insurance for the jewelery. Since its probably expensive merchandise, I would highly suggest either you have to make sure the store/company is providing it or that you are not liable if the building burns down with all of the stuff inside -- or whatever.

I will always ask for a "responsible" person that will be holding and accounting for the merchandise to work with me during the shoot.

If you don't have insurance you should not be doing commercial work. It cost about $500 a year don't be cheap.