Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 15 Apr 2009 (Wednesday) 01:33
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

The future of liveview and electronic viewfinders

 
Daniel ­ Browning
Goldmember
1,199 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
     
Apr 15, 2009 01:33 |  #1

I think a loupe on the back of my 5D2 liveview LCD with some ergonomic support makes a decent EVF. What's the most advanced EVF you have used so far (jerry-rigged or otherwise)?

I like the advantages so much that I'm starting to use it more often than the OVF (60% or so). What percent of the time do you use liveview?

I think the advantages of EVF are:

  • Zooming to any part of the image for critical focus
  • View the actual captured image, including white balance, black and white, etc;
  • Tilt/swivel.
  • Movie mode.
  • Live zebras, histograms, false color "raw" mode, guide lines, overlays, etc.
  • 100% accuracy for framing.
  • Accurate DOF (typical viewfinder screens show f/1.2 as if it were f/3.5, making critical manual focus impossible).
  • Accurate rendition of the bokeh
  • Usable in much darker situations, including effective f/32 for macro, etc.
  • Contrast detect autofocus with movable focus points
  • Allows the entirety of the primary mirror to be used for phase detect autofocus (instead of a small secondary mirror), so AF sensors can cover the entire frame instead of just the middle third portion.
  • The possibility of reducing lag from 40ms to 0ms or even negative lag (this would not apply if a mirror is still used for phase-detect autofocus).
Disadvantages compared to OVF:
  • Battery usage
  • Heat generation (in some circumstances can cause thermal noise to rise above the read noise floor).
  • Current technology may be relatively expensive, slow frame rate, low resolution, and/or bulky.
  • Dynamic range limited by the sensor instead of the eye/brain.
What are the advantages/disadvantag​es that I missed?

A $50 million feature film was shot with a $3k EVF using manual focus and thin DOF ("Knowing"; it grossed about $93 mil so far). They will only get better, smaller, and cheaper with time. I think its inevitable that they appear in more and more cameras.

How many years will it be before the number of EVIL camera shipments outweigh DSLR?

Daniel

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
DStanic
Cream of the Crop
6,148 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Canada
     
Apr 15, 2009 06:16 |  #2

For the shooting I do I would only use liveview maybe 10% of the time, when I'm shooting my cats or something. The rest of the time it would be useless to me.. big heavy lenses on DSLRs need to be balanced properly with camera-to-face so OVF is the way to go.

It's just a matter of time before they make OVF into EVF like in superzoom P&S cameras.


Sony A6000, 16-50PZ, 55-210, 35mm 1.8 OSS
Canon 60D, 30D
Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 17-35, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 85mm 1.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HSK
Goldmember
Avatar
1,124 posts
Joined Aug 2008
Location: London, UK
     
Apr 15, 2009 06:22 |  #3

One feature i'd like to see, is a histogram overlay via the view finder. I'm sure they have it via a separate LCD on some cameras, even that would do me!



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 462
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Apr 15, 2009 06:44 as a reply to  @ HSK's post |  #4

LV is great for composition and EC using histogram but should have ability to use AF as well.


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,144 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3420
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Apr 15, 2009 09:43 |  #5

HSK wrote in post #7733910 (external link)
One feature i'd like to see, is a histogram overlay via the view finder. I'm sure they have it via a separate LCD on some cameras, even that would do me!

Histogram overlay on Live View image is possible, you need to set CFn to enable exposure simulation on Live View

(I only learned this myself within the past week or so.)


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Duncan ­ Frenz
Purposely evaded the TF
Avatar
1,553 posts
Joined Jan 2009
Location: NE Ohio, USA
     
Apr 15, 2009 09:47 |  #6

Wilt wrote in post #7734809 (external link)
Histogram overlay on Live View image is possible, you need to set CFn to enable exposure simulation on Live View

(I only learned this myself within the past week or so.)

The only annoyance is that you cannot set the opacity like you can in some other cameras. A minor gripe many people and reviewers lament.


- Duncan
Gear_Mor
e than I need, Less than I want
Nonconformists are all alike.
I am not an expert, but I play one on the internet.:D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 462
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Apr 15, 2009 10:22 as a reply to  @ Duncan Frenz's post |  #7

Scrolling through the info button is how I found it.


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HSK
Goldmember
Avatar
1,124 posts
Joined Aug 2008
Location: London, UK
     
Apr 15, 2009 11:53 |  #8

Wilt wrote in post #7734809 (external link)
Histogram overlay on Live View image is possible, you need to set CFn to enable exposure simulation on Live View

(I only learned this myself within the past week or so.)

not live view wilt! I said viewfinder! That would be nice, to see it directly through the viewfinder, along with the exposure meter.

I often use it via the live view though.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
"spouting off stupid things"
Avatar
56,262 posts
Likes: 2948
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Apr 15, 2009 12:10 |  #9

I am so not a fan of optical viewfinders though I have not yet seen an electronic one i would consider over the optical. Optical viewfinders are just so primitive and their very design leads to focusing errors that are completely out of the control of the photographer. With three separate light paths, one for the sensor, one for the viewfinder, and one for the autofocus sensor there is just too much room for mismatches leading to OOF images.

But the EVFers of today are just plain primitive and i haven't seen a single camera company take advantage of the technology. So, imagine a ELF that duplicates all of the functions of today's optical VF but adds the feature set of live view as well with zooming and overlays and such. Couple a few features like ultra high contrast B/W or amber so manual focusing is easier, night vision so that it is possible to focus in places that would be impossible for an optical VF, and wireless transition to a handheld viewer so that you do not even need to be peering through that tiny little peephole all the time and i think you'd have one kick a$$ system.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,144 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3420
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Apr 15, 2009 12:13 |  #10

HSK wrote in post #7735618 (external link)
not live view wilt! I said viewfinder! That would be nice, to see it directly through the viewfinder, along with the exposure meter.

I often use it via the live view though.

doh, we can so mis-read what is clearly written! :oops:


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HSK
Goldmember
Avatar
1,124 posts
Joined Aug 2008
Location: London, UK
     
Apr 15, 2009 12:23 |  #11

Wilt wrote in post #7735762 (external link)
doh, we can so mis-read what is clearly written! :oops:

Happens to the best of us :p

I'm not sure if any of the higher end Canon's offer a histogram on a small separate LCD on the back of the camera? Do you know if the Canon line offer any?



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 462
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Apr 15, 2009 13:31 as a reply to  @ HSK's post |  #12

I now know that I'm sure that I didn't know what I was talking about....again ;)


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
FlyingPhotog
Cream of the "Prop"
Avatar
57,560 posts
Likes: 161
Joined May 2007
Location: Probably Chasing Aircraft
     
Apr 15, 2009 13:33 |  #13

Back to the OP:

One major CON: If the LCD craps the bed, there goes your viewfinder completely...

Personally, I'll keep an optical viewfinder.


Jay
Crosswind Images (external link)
Facebook Fan Page (external link)

"If you aren't getting extraordinary images from today's dSLRs, regardless of brand, it's not the camera!" - Bill Fortney, Nikon Corp.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,144 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3420
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Apr 15, 2009 13:38 |  #14

It is hard to imagine an LCD-based viewfinder that would ever provide the same optical resolution as a direct optical view. Sure there is mirror alignment and focus screen alignment challenges, but those have been negligible considerations for the most part, as demonstrated by over 60 years of reflex cameras!


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HSK
Goldmember
Avatar
1,124 posts
Joined Aug 2008
Location: London, UK
     
Apr 15, 2009 13:47 |  #15

Ooh damn, no I wouldn't like a dedicated LCD in place of the viewfinder - If they could overlay more info over the traditional optical that would be nice.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,998 views & 0 likes for this thread
The future of liveview and electronic viewfinders
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Irony
630 guests, 267 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.