So... threatened with legal action from first time client

breal101 wrote in post #7763606
It seems like they needed a scapegoat and you looked good to them for it.

That is what I thought yesterday as well. But today after I have gotten over the disappointment and frustration of it, the more I think about it, the more I have the feeling that they just instead expected me to offer them up the images for free in return for avoiding their "attornies who are standing by". (sounds like a tele-commercial doesn't it.)

Especially after the promoter called me this morning to ask if I had a few extra images I could give him for his site. We got to discussing this and he told me the other types of behavior they did with the water issue and banners.

JasonBr wrote in post #7763783
If they never paid you, whats the problem? Sounds like they're doing a good job of making their "new website" go bust on their own. At this point, if they want the photos, you should charge them at least twice the figure you had in mind before all of this. If they have published any of the photos, make sure to get the removed, as they have not paid you for the photos OR your services. Counter their legal threats with the threat of a copyright infringement suit if they have published.

I have not given them a single image and informed in the last email I sent that they would not be getting anything from me and not contact me anymore. So they actually have no images at all as they had no other shooters around.

NickSimcheck wrote in post #7763649
I wouldn't do that, just for records sake.

The only problem that I can forsee coming from this mess is somebody giving you a bad reputation 'just cause'

So I should unblock their email? I only blocked it because I simply did not want to deal with their lies and backtracking anymore. It was not worth the stress and hassle to me to open my email and see something from them in there knowing it was just going to be complaints and false accusations.

The promoter did say that after someone else alerted him to it, he checked their website yesterday morning and saw on their front page that they made some unkind comments about him and his "**** policy" tactics of favoring certain sponsors over others.

He said he left them a voice mail about how disappointing it was for him to see this and it was not a very truthful or professional move on their part for someone trying to get a new website off the ground to have the public see them turning their front page into some kind of MySpace rant and if they wanted to discuss it to call him. Which they never called, but by this morning they had removed the comments.

So at the most I can expect the same treatment from them. I honestly can't see someone trying to pursue legal action over this when they are so far in the wrong. But then again, you never know. Some people are really sue crazy.

ClickClick-

It sounds like a very difficult client. At the same time, I don't understand why any professional would accept an assignment with out confirming payment-ever. On top of other many other factors, this should have told you from the start about this imminent trainwreck.

-Scott

I would really like to know what company this is so I can stay as absolutely far away from them as possible. They sound like a complete and utter cluster#$@% on just about every level possible. How can a company that is releasing a web site not know what an FTP site is?

Anyway, it sounds like whoever was responsible for securing a photographer for that event really dropped the ball, and they are using you as a scapegoat so they don't get fired or something...

ClickClick wrote in post #7767183
So I should unblock their email? I only blocked it because I simply did not want to deal with their lies and backtracking anymore. It was not worth the stress and hassle to me to open my email and see something from them in there knowing it was just going to be complaints and false accusations.

The promoter did say that after someone else alerted him to it, he checked their website yesterday morning and saw on their front page that they made some unkind comments about him and his "**** policy" tactics of favoring certain sponsors over others.

He said he left them a voice mail about how disappointing it was for him to see this and it was not a very truthful or professional move on their part for someone trying to get a new website off the ground to have the public see them turning their front page into some kind of MySpace rant and if they wanted to discuss it to call him. Which they never called, but by this morning they had removed the comments.

So at the most I can expect the same treatment from them. I honestly can't see someone trying to pursue legal action over this when they are so far in the wrong. But then again, you never know. Some people are really sue crazy.

It would be worth the hassle when they are stupid enough to try to sue you for the images, then you take their slander and countersue for damages.

Not that you want it to come to that, but if it did...

NickSimcheck wrote in post #7769030
It would be worth the hassle when they are stupid enough to try to sue you for the images, then you take their slander and countersue for damages.

Not that you want it to come to that, but if it did...

You have a good point here. I will do that now.

yes, unblock the emails. set up a folder and let them auto drop into that if you don't want to see the emails, but they will be worth having if any thing comes of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, they don't have a leg to stand on and you do.

I would send them an invoice with your normal pay rate for such things,as well as a contract of sorts, even if you have to make one up. you have the images, and in the invoice and/or contract have it stated that they don't receive images until payment.

Personally I would have it sent to them from a legal office. These guys have no idea of how it works, so just bill them. If they don't pay then push it a little. They can bang on and winge as much as they like, but their emails are proof they hired you, you have proof that they never hung their banners up, had a low turn out. etc, which wasn't your fault, you were there and you did your job. Also keep an eye on their website, if they slander you, take a screen shot of it.

Time to turn the tide?... Send them an invoice.

or forget about it.

My opinion is that your safest best is to have nothing more to do with them. They want your images for free. They don't deserve them even if they did pay for them. If they did pay for them you would be in a client relationship with them and would open yourself up to more problems and repercussions. Learn from this and quit while you are ahead. Good luck.

The good news is that you have the e-mails as proof of locations, times and other details. Not to mention a photo of you and the site manager. I HIGHLY doubt anything will come of this. If you are really concerned about your reputation and what may happen because of this, file a complaint w/ the Better Business Bureau. I wouldn't go around town bad-mouthing the company, because you're only asking for trouble. I would, however, warn other photogs in the area about this company and to avoid them. Sorry you had such a bad experience with something that could have really brought you some exposure.

I'm betting these guys advertised on Craigslist, didn't they?

wow, what a mess. It would be nice to think we live in a world were a handshake and verbal agreement is good enough but obviously it is not. You are a good worker to diligently show up to the event and work it anyway but I think you now have to deal with the problems of not hammering out the details up front.
Personally, I would ship them a CD with the images along with a bill consistent with what you would typically charge via certified mail and email them noting that. Even though there is no written contract the emails that show a timeline of requested shoots is likely enough to show that you were expected to photograph the event(s). Essentially, you are the responsible party that would be required to get the contract and payment situation under control. The absence of one unfortunately -is on you. I would also be prepared to discount the rate on the invoice and would include a note that I understood they were not 100% satisfied regardless of who is at fault and that the total on the invoice is negotiable, I would like to please both parties.
This is not to avoid litigation or to save face. Merely to correct a situation that honestly should have been decided up front.
After the settling of the dust, you may discuss future referrals of photographers that may be able to help them.

I wouldn't send them an invoice as that would imply a contract. If it gets nasty they need to make their case. The less you supply, the less evidence they have to present.

Cheers

Shane

They don't have attorneys. Heck they were **** about how much they paid for the friggin' business cards.

zagiace wrote in post #7776008
Personally, I would ship them a CD with the images along with a bill consistent with what you would typically charge via certified mail and email them noting that. Even though there is no written contract the emails that show a timeline of requested shoots is likely enough to show that you were expected to photograph the event(s). Essentially, you are the responsible party that would be required to get the contract and payment situation under control. The absence of one unfortunately -is on you. I would also be prepared to discount the rate on the invoice and would include a note that I understood they were not 100% satisfied regardless of who is at fault and that the total on the invoice is negotiable, I would like to please both parties.
This is not to avoid litigation or to save face. Merely to correct a situation that honestly should have been decided up front.
After the settling of the dust, you may discuss future referrals of photographers that may be able to help them.

All of this advice is horrible.