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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 23 Apr 2009 (Thursday) 08:22
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Studio in a small space/backgrounds

 
Stefan ­ A
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Apr 23, 2009 08:22 |  #1

So, I am getting more and more into studio photography and I finally purchased a backdrop support and a few backgrounds. I am discovering that lighting a background is presenting new problems that I didn't worry about before.

First of all, it seems I am very limited in how the subject can be positioned because of the background light. I have a standard lightstand that I put the light on - so it is a bit high. The book I have been using to learn (Scott Smith's book) says to place the light directly behind the subject and that the light should not be angled up or down or from the side - just straight on. So, I have this huge light behind my subject and they have to stay put so the light isn't in the frame. For head and shoulder shots this is fine - but any more and the light is going to show.

I understand that the further away the light is from the background, the more even and larger the light will be distributed. My book says 16 inches is good - but that basically gives me a small bright spot in the middle. So I have tried to back it off about 3-4 feet. With the subject in front of the light, I am very limited on space. My fill light is now as far back as it can go and it gives very little room to work.

So I have this huge 12 foot muslin yet I can only get head and shoulder shots at the most. I must be missing something.

Thanks
Stefan


80D, Canon 17-55mm f/2.8, Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 70-200mm F/4L,Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, Canon 100-400 f/4.5-5.6, Kenko 1.4 TC, Canon 580 exII Speedlite, ebay wireless trigger, Genesis 3 light kit
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bobbyz
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Apr 23, 2009 08:39 |  #2

Stefan,

I am no expert but have you tried putting your bg light say on the side? You can't always hide the bg light behind the subject. You can put it on the side, coming from top and where ever you feel like it gives you nice bg light.

When using a single AB400 as bg light, I sometimes hide it behind the subject using a small bg light stand. Light is 4-5 feet from the background but the position depends on the spread I am trying to achieve on the bg. I will use grid or no grid depending on the situation. I have even tried bg light coming from the side and even a litle front of the subject but using a grid, it is putting a nice spot on the background right behing where subject's head is.

BTW - How big is your space?


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sdipirro
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Apr 23, 2009 13:38 |  #3

The background stands are pretty handy for hiding the light. From the sides with grids can work. But if you have the space on top, you can also put the light on a boom, aimed at the background. I'm guessing you're just trying to get a roundish spot of light behind the subject's head, or are you trying to just eliminate shadows or wash out the background?


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Cathpah
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Apr 23, 2009 14:56 |  #4

you could also get one of THESE (external link)and mount a light directly to the ceiling and shoot the light down onto the backdrop from there. cheaper and more secure than a boom, but also a lot more permanent (which can be good or bad).


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Stefan ­ A
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Apr 23, 2009 15:13 |  #5

Right now I am just going for even illumination accross the BG. I don't think I am ready for anything permanent. How would I use the background stands to hide the light? Yeah, I tried the light on the side and there was a lot of falloff. Then like I said, I read in my book the the light has to be straight on. I am willing to try the side again. Perhaps I need 2 lights on each side?

Stefan


80D, Canon 17-55mm f/2.8, Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 70-200mm F/4L,Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, Canon 100-400 f/4.5-5.6, Kenko 1.4 TC, Canon 580 exII Speedlite, ebay wireless trigger, Genesis 3 light kit
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bobbyz
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Apr 23, 2009 16:13 |  #6

Stefan can you post some example shots. I would guess you would have more of a lightoff problem if light is too close to the bg. If it is far off you will get more uniform light.

BTW - Are you using any grids on your bg light?


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GarryEdwards
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Apr 23, 2009 17:35 |  #7

The advice to place the light immediately behind the subject facing straight on to the background is just plain wrong.
It's doable but the light will bounce straight off the background onto the model, causing its own problems (unless you have a lot of space between subject and background.

Much better to use two lights, one each side, each aimed at the opposite side of the background. This will provide even illumination with a minimum of power and, just as important, the unwanted light will largely bounce harmlessly to the side - and the cosine loss will also help to avoid image degradation on the edges of your subject.




  
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bobbyz
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Apr 23, 2009 18:29 |  #8

GarryEdwards wrote in post #7790732 (external link)
The advice to place the light immediately behind the subject facing straight on to the background is just plain wrong.
It's doable but the light will bounce straight off the background onto the model, causing its own problems (unless you have a lot of space between subject and background.

Why would it be wrong to place bg light right behind the subject? How much light comes back and hits the subject would depends on how you set the power on the bg light, isn't it and what kind of shot you trying to take? For example if you need the glow behind subject's head (like OP said) there shouldn't be any issue at all. Now if you were trying to turn seemless white then sure lot of light will come back directly to the subject and lens.


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Stefan ­ A
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Apr 23, 2009 20:41 |  #9

I may be able to post some shots tomorrow. Most of the shots I have look fine because I only shoot what works. So they are mainly head and shoulder shots. The real problem I am having is that it seems that because of the space and my light setup, I am pretty much limited to only these types of shots. But the advise given so far is helpful and I will try.

No, I have not used a grid. My barndoor sets came with grids, but I don't know what they are for.

Stefan


80D, Canon 17-55mm f/2.8, Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 70-200mm F/4L,Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, Canon 100-400 f/4.5-5.6, Kenko 1.4 TC, Canon 580 exII Speedlite, ebay wireless trigger, Genesis 3 light kit
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Cathpah
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Apr 24, 2009 09:10 |  #10

Stefan A wrote in post #7791781 (external link)
I may be able to post some shots tomorrow. Most of the shots I have look fine because I only shoot what works. So they are mainly head and shoulder shots. The real problem I am having is that it seems that because of the space and my light setup, I am pretty much limited to only these types of shots. But the advise given so far is helpful and I will try.

No, I have not used a grid. My barndoor sets came with grids, but I don't know what they are for.

Stefan

grids are just a simple tool allowing you to concentrate the spread of light (and reduce spill!) to achieve a certain look. Grids can be helpful on the background if you want a nice tight circle, helpful in hairlights to keep the light on the back/side of the models head and reduce the spill elsewhere, etc.


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LightingMan
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May 10, 2009 21:10 |  #11

Hello all:
I have not visited for a while so I thought I would drop in and see what was going on. It didn’t take long to see some controversy going on about background lights and with the various comments, I felt it would be good to try and help clear this up.

First, let’s visit Stephen A’s original comments. He seems to feel confined in his use of a background light saying that I specified to place it directly behind the subject and perpendicular to and 16 inches from the background avoiding any upward or downward tilt. My explanation about why this is done is very clear in my book but I will elaborate on it here for greater clarity. First, let me emphasize as I did in the book that this technique is for one and only one style of background lighting. That of placing a simple symmetrical glow over the shoulders of a head and shoulders portrait subject (not full length) to create separation and possibly a colorful accent to whatever color clothing they are wearing. It would be rather bad to assume that one lighting technique would be used for many different portrait background situations. Each requires it’s own thought about where we want the light to go and then to simply place light(s) in the correct position to achieve this goal. The 16 inch suggestion was just that. A suggested starting place for that specific technique.

Briefly, with regard to not tilting the light up or down, as I described in my book, the reason for this is very simple. If you tilt a light source up or down, what was a uniform circular pattern of light on the background, now becomes and ellipse or oval. Having an oval shaped patch of light coming up behind a subject, tends to be distracting and will draw attention to itself while a simple circular pattern fits comfortably over the shoulders and is easily adjusted to remain below the head. It is a pleasing glow over the shoulders that enhances the subject but does not distract from them.

This central glow is something that many background painters achieve by painting the material brighter and brighter and they approach the center of the background material. When your background is a solid color such as black seamless paper, the use of a simple background light is used as I described to achieve this effect. Other background effects are achieved by entirely different approaches.

This glow technique can be successfully used for one to several persons depending on how they are arranged. Also, with regard to the comment about the light fixture showing, this will happen mostly when you have the light very near the subject rather than nearer to the background as it should be and is avoidable if one simply pays attention to what they are seeing. Also remember that when the subject is at least 6 feet out from the background and the light is several feet behind the subject, it will appear much smaller from the position of the camera than if it were very near the subject and thus be far easier to hide. There is a logical reason for everything.

One must also be aware that the correct distance between subject and background should ideally be no less than 6 feet. Working with the subject closer than this to the background is the single greatest cause of unwanted shadows from the subject falling upon the background. This is a very common question but extremely simple to correct. For those who are working in a very confined space, they will be somewhat limited. I see endless portraits done with the subject very nearly touching the background. Not a good thing UNLESS your specific goal is the deliberately cast the subjects shadow onto the background for effect.

There are many ways to light a background. One of my favorites is to gently pull soft muslin toward one lower corner and lock it there creating graceful curved ripples in the fabric behind the subject. I then position a background light, usually with a color gel attached low and to one side so that it fires directly across the ripples in the fabric. This produces a pleasing group of soft, curving diagonal lines behind the subject. This is but one example of many, many possibilities. One cannot simply follow a single set of general instructions and consider it adequate for any situation. Each is unique and requires the photographer to think the process through as to where the light needs to go and how to get it there.

Absolutely no offense is intended to GerryEdwards but his statement about the placement of a background light behind the subject facing the background being wrong is simply incorrect. As I have already stated, a properly set up portrait situation places the subject at least 6 feet from the background which allows independent control over lighting on the subject and that of the background. Not sure why he thinks light will bounce off the background and hit the subject. That is simply incorrect. His suggestion of placing two lights, each on the opposite side of the background would create and entirely different effect than the one described. There are many valid background lighting techniques. Each creates a specific effect. There is no one that is correct more than another. Each is unique and valid for whatever effect it creates.

Anyone who has studied with me already knows that I am all about keeping things simple and using our heads more than lots of bulky equipment like booms. I have owned a boom for 30 years have have only found a need to use it two or three times. There is always a simpler, more effective way to create beautiful lighting and it’s usually the simplest way with the least amount of equipment.

Stefan, please feel free to e-mail me anytime you are having difficulty. I am always happy to help.

I hope this helps resolve this issue.
Best wishes to all,


Scott Smith - Master Photographic Craftsman, CPP, F-TPPA
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"It's not what you own that makes you a great image maker... It's what you know." - Scott Smith

  
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bobbyz
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May 11, 2009 10:38 |  #12

Scott, nice to see you back.


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Stefan ­ A
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May 12, 2009 19:17 |  #13

Thanks Scott for clarifying some of these points.

Stefan


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Studio in a small space/backgrounds
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