5D2 Auto Focus Question...

Hiya friends, long time no post

Ok, my question is to the 5D2 owners. How accurate are you finding AF using non-cross type points in challenging/lesser lighting situations with glass faster than f/2.8? AFAIK, the visible center point is the only cross-type sensor along with the invisible (6?) assist points, and the rest are non-cross type.

I've been rolling round the notion of coming back to Canon for a couple of reasons - mainly for Canon's primes (repeat, rolling it around). I don't so much find IQ issues with Nikon primes, in fact their IQ is fantastic - it's the gear-driven primes that naturally have more mechanical variance than something like USM. For my predominate type of shooting, I usually like to shoot in servo, wide or near wide open, with or without flash and probably demand more than I should from AF accuracy in less than stellar lighting conditions.

My D700 has 15 cross-type sensors which are individually selectable in the form of 3 columns by 5 rows in the center area of the frame - This is a very good thing. Going to the picky side of things, using any other focus points in challenging light can yield mild variances in accuracy when shooting f/1.4- say f/2. I'm not talking completely OOF shots, I'm talking slight in the sense of an ear rather than an eye, or nose rather than an eye. Just to reiterate, the kind of situations I'm referring to is very demanding and I'm not surprised is see some variance like this with outer non-cross-type focus points. In near dark I can usually count on well over a 90% keeper rate when one of the cross-types are used shooting at any aperture.

So, if I came back to Canon, it for sure would only be the 5D2. My biggest concern is the carry over of the same AF system and I know the original 5D did have some low light accuracy issues as it has been mentioned on this forum many times.

I get torn in certain ways.. I've had both great and terrible experiences with Canon ( looking back, I think I could have resolved many of my issues if micro adjustment was available at the time) - I prefer Canon's lens line-up - I've always shot Canon and have always preferred Canon's color - and lastly, I can say that since moving to Nikon, my general shooting experience and end results have made me happier than I was when I shot Canon (see micro adjustment comment).

So, that's the short of what I'm thinking for now. Looking forward to some comments

65 views and no one can comment on the 5D2's AF performance? I know I'm on the dark side... but come on folks

Well Brian. I know you wanted to hear from others and not just me but I'm finding the AF to be extremely accurate, producing very sharp images. Our shooting styles are definitely different so I'm not sure if my experience would be the same as yours. I'm very happy with the switch back from Nikon and don't find myself wanting at all.

Fabrian wrote in post #7808169
65 views and no one can comment on the 5D2's AF performance? I know I'm on the dark side... but come on folks

They are too busy using their 5dmkiis

If the 5d had issues in low light, the D700 would be nearly useless in lesser conditions. Other than the 1dmkiii, no other cameras i know of have better low light focusing than a 5d, and the mkii improved on that.

TMR Design wrote in post #7808315
Well Brian. I know you wanted to hear from others and not just me but I'm finding the AF to be extremely accurate, producing very sharp images. Our shooting styles are definitely different so I'm not sure if my experience would be the same as yours. I'm very happy with the switch back from Nikon and don't find myself wanting at all.

Thanks Robert. I've been wondering how you're diggin the new gear.

basroil wrote in post #7808363
They are too busy using their 5dmkiis

If the 5d had issues in low light, the D700 would be nearly useless in lesser conditions. Other than the 1dmkiii, no other cameras i know of have better low light focusing than a 5d, and the mkii improved on that.

Thanks for the useless sarcasm, and you're comment is confusing. Have you extensively used the 5D2 and D700 to compare? Because the D700 will AF just fine in the pitch black.

Honestly, I'm looking for some real user feedback, not blanket statements.

Brian,

Does the D700 focus in pitch black regardless of the lens and content within the AF point?

I've done some experimenting with high ISO and low light shooting and have had very good results. Obviously, if it's dark and there is no or low contrast the AF system is useless but I've been able to focus in low light surprisingly well.

Of course I don't have a D700 to compare it with and while they are both brilliant cameras, I don't know if you can make feature for feature direct comparisons. I'm not saying you can't... I just don't know if you can.

Fabrian wrote in post #7808419
Thanks Robert. I've been wondering how you're diggin the new gear.

Thanks for the useless sarcasm, and you're comment is confusing. Have you extensively used the 5D2 and D700 to compare? Because the D700 will AF just fine in the pitch black.

Honestly, I'm looking for some real user feedback, not blanket statements.

Used 5d, 5dmkii, and played around with a d300 (exactly the same AF system as d700). d300 seemed slow where the other two would have no problems, and 5dmkii keeps up with my 1dmkiii ev for ev except in servo.

Rather than asking people and then getting pissed when they tell you an answer, go rent a 5dmkii and try it out for yourself. Just don't assume it'll handle the same as you d700, they are two entirely different beasts. Much like people not knowing how to use a 1dmkiii because they spent so much time with the 1dmkii and forgot to read that AF was redesigned from scratch (aside from the 5% who had hardware issues and another 5% with software issues, most of the remaining cameras either worked fine off the bat or worked fine once the photographer stopped complaining and started shooting)


EDIT: And remember that the 5dmkii does not have af illumination bulb, so the further you are from your subject the better the canon cameras are at focusing in low light as compared to other brands.

TMR Design wrote in post #7808462
Brian,

Does the D700 focus in pitch black regardless of the lens and content within the AF point?

I've done some experimenting with high ISO and low light shooting and have had very good results. Obviously, if it's dark and there is no or low contrast the AF system is useless but I've been able to focus in low light surprisingly well.

Of course I don't have a D700 to compare it with and while they are both brilliant cameras, I don't know if you can make feature for feature direct comparisons. I'm not saying you can't... I just don't know if you can.

Stating that focusing in pitch black was possible with the D700 was really just a result of a comment earlier. I have no intention of shooting in conditions where there isn't any visible light anyway, it's just nice to know how well a particular body can accurately focus under the toughest conditions (which I'm a stickler for). For example, I know that in any indoor event I can have confidence in my bodies ability to focus well in single shot or servo with my 50 or 70-200. The screw driven 85 is another story, and that's one of the reasons for my interest in Canon's more modern lenses. Of course if Nikon's lens is the weakest link, and Canon's body was hypothetically the weakest link, then it's a wash, so to speak.

Feature wise, I don't intend on comparing the two. They are different animals and it's not a fair comparison anyway - 5D2 video VS a whole slew of functionality that the D700 additionally has. I have only a few priorities and both bodies offer that for me.

basroil wrote in post #7808536
Used 5d, 5dmkii, and played around with a d300 (exactly the same AF system as d700). d300 seemed slow where the other two would have no problems, and 5dmkii keeps up with my 1dmkiii ev for ev except in servo.

Rather than asking people and then getting pissed when they tell you an answer, go rent a 5dmkii and try it out for yourself. Just don't assume it'll handle the same as you d700, they are two entirely different beasts. Much like people not knowing how to use a 1dmkiii because they spent so much time with the 1dmkii and forgot to read that AF was redesigned from scratch (aside from the 5% who had hardware issues and another 5% with software issues, most of the remaining cameras either worked fine off the bat or worked fine once the photographer stopped complaining and started shooting)


EDIT: And remember that the 5dmkii does not have af illumination bulb, so the further you are from your subject the better the canon cameras are at focusing in low light as compared to other brands.

D300 and D700 are far from the same, friend. I can say that because I've owned both for a good while. I'm not getting "pissed", I just don't see the need for sarcasm. I've been a member here for a long time and asked for help equally as much as I've given help. If I were to rent a 5D2, I wouldn't feel the need to start this thread and ask for help, as I so did. I'm asking for user opinion so I don't have to spend money on renting...that's one of the perks of this forum, no?

It's interesting... sometimes a thread topic like this can go for pages...or sink into the muck.. may as well go fishing.

Is the 5D MKII miles ahead of the 5D classic?

No.

Feels perhaps a tad snappier, but nothing dramatic at all.

My 1DMKIII would run circles around the 5D MKII when it comes to the non-center non-crosstype AF points. The center AF point seems fine on the 5D MKII however...but that's how it's always been no?

I didn't exactly buy the 5DMKII as my second body for it's AF system...it was all about the 21Mp FF sensor for me...

nicksan wrote in post #7808755
Is the 5D MKII miles ahead of the 5D classic?

No.

Feels perhaps a tad snappier, but nothing dramatic at all.

My 1DMKIII would run circles around the 5D MKII when it comes to the non-center non-crosstype AF points. The center AF point seems fine on the 5D MKII however...but that's how it's always been no?

I didn't exactly buy the 5DMKII as my second body for it's AF system...it was all about the 21Mp FF sensor for me...

Thanks Nicksan. I've always wondered how long it's going to take before we can have all cross-type sensor in FF. Definitely one of the benefits of a crop. The compromise battle never ends

This is one of the reason I now own the D700 - at least there's 15 to chose from.

Shooting both the 5D MkII and the 1D3, I can tell you that, in servo, the 5D2 is very impressive, when assuming you are basing the shooting off the center point. I shoot indoor volleyball with both cameras, and the keeper rate for both is outstanding and equivalent.

Now, move off the center point, and the 5D2 starts losing ground. Results are not unacceptable (not nearly what was reported by the wounded 1D3s back in the day) but it is noticeable. I'm guessing, but I would call it a 10% difference. My recently tuned 1D3 doesn't miss a beat.

My guess would be that your results with the D700 would be comparable to my 1D3 -- so, look for similar changes.

Hey Brian,

As you know, I bailed on Nikon before getting the D700, but I certainly do agree with you that the D300 AF in continuous (servo) mode was very unimpressive and sluggish. I really stayed away from that mode, as it never gave me the AF performance of single servo.

The AF testing I've done with the 5D Mk II in AF Servo mode were done with the center AF point and as Matt stated, the results are quite good and I find it to be fast and quiet. I have yet to try it using points outside the center.

No arguments from me there.

While I am not too crazy about those being clustered in the middle columns, it's still much more robust that the 5D MKII.

I think LOTS of people would have been very happy if Canon made all 9 points crosstype. Ah well.

Fabrian wrote in post #7808805
Thanks Nicksan. I've always wondered how long it's going to take before we can have all cross-type sensor in FF. Definitely one of the benefits of a crop. The compromise battle never ends

This is one of the reason I now own the D700 - at least there's 15 to chose from.

nicksan wrote in post #7808902
I think LOTS of people would have been very happy if Canon made all 9 points crosstype. Ah well.

In retrospect, this seems like an odd omission. Almost as if they proceeded too far into development before realizing that the they had an AF system on the shelf from the xxd system that was superior.

It happens.

nicksan wrote in post #7808902
No arguments from me there.

While I am not too crazy about those being clustered in the middle columns, it's still much more robust that the 5D MKII.

I think LOTS of people would have been very happy if Canon made all 9 points crosstype. Ah well.

mattograph wrote in post #7808943
In retrospect, this seems like an odd omission. Almost as if they proceeded too far into development before realizing that the they had an AF system on the shelf from the xxd system that was superior.

It happens.

I can only imaging it's some strategy in the game, but still... if others MFGs are doing it, or something like it, then it's surely not helping matters for those who care. I suppose the ability to take video offsets it as a feature, although if this forum was polled, I can't imaging the leading result being, "ya, we'd prefer some video over a newly designed, better AF system".

My curiosity is still going though..