Backdrops 101 - help sought

I wonder if you can help me choose a backdrop?

Let's start at the beginning. I am keen on learning a bit about portraiture; I'd also like to be able to shoot the occasional small group (maybe up to four people) and I'd like to take the odd full-length shot (possibly of individuals, possible of the aforementioned group).

So, I have gradually been accumulating some kit. I have a couple of Portaflash 336VM lights, three lightstands, a few brollies and a few flashguns and optical slaves.

A bit of a hotch-potch, but I think it shoudl be enough to get started.

However, the place that I would be most likely to shoot is in an old church hall. Panelled wood walls, no scope for making holes in the walls to put hooks in and so I think I need to buy a backdrop stand and a backdrop.

A quick look around eBay and here suggests that I have a few things to start thinking about:

1) How big (especially wide) shoudl the backdrop be? It seems that somewhere around 3m (10feet) is the sweet spot - would that be about right? I'm obviously wanting a portable setup.

2) I guess I would want to start with a plain white backdrop. If I were to buy a muslin backdrop, would I expect it to be stitched so that I could just feed a pole through it, or would that be an extra task to be performed?

3) Paper -v- muslin. Muslin must be more durable, right? But paper is less work?

4) Lighting - if I'm wanting to light the backdrop - or indeed put a hair light in place - can you buy attachments that fit on to the horizontal part of the stand and end in some kind of bracket for the flash? Or am I just being silly now?

I'm sure there must be a million things I should be thinking about in addition to the above - is this kind of stuff covered on a website somewhere?

Sorry for the daft questions...

regards,
/alan

Fabric backdrops -
* The widest you'll find is 10 feet (3 meters) because very few fabric looms are bigger than that. 10 x 20 feet is usually the largest size you can get without spending a fortune. This can be hung horizontally for large groups or vertically and draped on the floor for full length portraits. If you buy anything smaller than 10 x 20, you'll eventually regret it.
* Keeping them free of noticeable wrinkles is near impossible unless you can leave them hung in a studio. Color patterns on fabric help hide wrinkles.
* For location setup, spring clamps are commonly used to attach it to the crossbar. Some are made with a pocket hem to make this easier.

Seamless paper backdrops -
* Shipping can be expensive and transporting the wide rolls can be difficult. Small rolls for individual portraits aren't too bad, but wide rolls are practical only in a studio.
* Wrinkle - free
* Not very durable if you put it on the floor, but it's easy to cut off the soiled/torn part and unroll some more.

Vinyl backdrops -
More durable and more expensive than paper. Lots of preprinted scenes available if you want to spend the money.

Lighting -
Background lights are commonly placed near the floor and aimed up. Either one behind the subject or one on each side. A hair light is easier to position and adjust if it's on its own stand.

Why white? I would start with dark gray or black if I wanted to use paper or muslin. Better would be to just use the natural bg you have in your church.

bobbyz wrote in post #7825489
Why white? I would start with dark gray or black if I wanted to use paper or muslin. Better would be to just use the natural bg you have in your church.

With white you can have the whole spectrum: white-grey-black simply by lighting the background differently. With any other you can't really go white.

Discov3ry wrote in post #7825538
With white you can have the whole spectrum: white-grey-black simply by lighting the background differently. With any other you can't really go white.

Sure you can.

And with white first thing that poor OP is going to have problems is keeping it white. And white doesn't looks good for typical group shots.

bobbyz wrote in post #7825625
Sure you can.

And with white first thing that poor OP is going to have problems is keeping it white. And white doesn't looks good for typical group shots.

You're totally right. White requires careful preparation and some experience. From a point of view of practicality/versatili​ty white is better. If convenience is more important then I guess gray or black goes well.

I was just thinking cheap by saying go with white. 1 roll vs. multiple

Discov3ry wrote in post #7825680
You're totally right. White requires careful preparation and some experience. From a point of view of practicality/versatili​ty white is better. If convenience is more important then I guess gray or black goes well.

I was just thinking cheap by saying go with white. 1 roll vs. multiple

Not to argue, from versatlity point of view something like thunder gray is lot more versatile.

You can make gray any color you want and it will give you better colors than if you were using white.

white will reflect all the wavelengths. So getting color on it not that good.

Of course, white will reflect all wavelengths, so you can get some good colours on it which can be good.

I'm getting confused now. I can see why white could be made any colour, albeit remaning light in tone. I can see why greay could be made any colour, albeit darker in tone.

But I couldn't make grey look white, could I? OTOH, I can also see that white would have to be scrupulously clean.

Point noted about back lights being on stands rather than shining down from above, thanks.

regards,
/alan

alan_potter wrote in post #7827157
I'm getting confused now. I can see why white could be made any colour, albeit remaning light in tone. I can see why greay could be made any colour, albeit darker in tone.

But I couldn't make grey look white, could I? OTOH, I can also see that white would have to be scrupulously clean.

Point noted about back lights being on stands rather than shining down from above, thanks.

regards,
/alan

I think the thunder gray (18% gray?) could be easily made into white by overexposing the background. If you were to meter the light, let's say your subject would be at 5.6 while the background at 11 or 13. That should do it.

alan_potter wrote in post #7827157
But I couldn't make grey look white, could I? OTOH, I can also see that white would have to be scrupulously clean.

Yes, you can actually make any backdrop white simply by overexposing by 2-3 stops.

You can also make any backdrop black, assuming you can put enough distance between your light sources, subject and backdrop.

mbellot wrote in post #7827189
Yes, you can actually make any backdrop white simply by overexposing by 2-3 stops.

You can also make any backdrop black, assuming you can put enough distance between your light sources, subject and backdrop.

What mbellot said plus using modifiers to help achieve darker backgrounds such as snoots, grids, or gobos to avoid light spillout.

alan_potter wrote in post #7827157
I'm getting confused now. I can see why white could be made any colour, albeit remaning light in tone. I can see why greay could be made any colour, albeit darker in tone.

But I couldn't make grey look white, could I? OTOH, I can also see that white would have to be scrupulously clean.

Point noted about back lights being on stands rather than shining down from above, thanks.

regards,
/alan

you can make grey (or even black for that matter) look white by simple throwing extra light onto the background. You can also make it look black by preventing any light from spilling onto the background.

Okay, thank you very much... time to go and do some more thinking

regards,
/alan